3-4 Weeks in to Homemade Food - Need Advice/Input

This topic has 9 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 5 months ago by poodaddy.

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January 24, 2017 at 3:16 pm #93818 Report Abuse

Kevin B
Member

Hello,

I have two dogs. One is a corgi and the other is a mini/small aussie. My corgi has always been particular about what kind of food he likes to eat. The mini aussie as well. I switched them over to homemade dogfood about 3-4 weeks ago. They love it but I’m concerned they aren’t getting all of the correct nutrients. Can someone please help me out and review my recipe? I’ve done a ton of research but still feel like something is missing or it’s just me being overly cautious since I love my pups! Thank you so much in advance!

It’s seems like they have normal bowl movements except for an occasional more liquid poop (They also like to chew stuff up and eat their stringy toys).

Recipe:

(96 oz) (6lbs) of Jenny-O 93% Lean Ground Turkey (PROTEIN)
(64 oz) of Uncle Ben’s Whole Grain Instant Brown Rice (GRAINS/CARBS)
(24 oz) of Mixed Vegetables (Peas, Carrots, and Broccoli) (VEGGIES)
(8 oz) of Mixed Chicken Hearts and Gizzards (PROTEIN/ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS)
(6) Eggs (PROTEIN/ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS)
(8) Egg Shells Cooked and Ground Up in Fine Pieces (CALCIUM)
(4) Pro Sense Daily Multivitamins (MULTIVITAMIN NUTRIENTS)

1. I first cook all of the ground turkey and drain the excess water/fat. Then I crack the eggs and mix them in with the hot ground turkey and continue to cook the turkey with the eggs until they are done.

2. I steam the veggies in the microwave until completely cooked and puree them in a blender adding water for consistency.

3. I cook the brown rice as normal.

4. I heat the oven to 375 F and cook the egg shells for 10-15 minutes until they are golden brown. I let the egg shells cool and then grind them into as small as pieces as I can get them. Makes approximately 8 teaspoons.

5. I then boil the chicken hearts and gizzards for ten minutes or until they seemed fully cooked.

6. I then blend the cooked hearts and gizzards together with the multi vitamins as it creates a liquid paste type texture.

7. Mix all in a giant pot and store for the week in the fridge.

It’s recommended by most that dogs their size and weight (25-30 lbs) get approximately 1 cup of food twice a day. This is what I give them.

They also get an in water sardine about every other 3-4 meals to provide the proper fish oils and additional calcium.

Please let me know if this seems like a sound recipe for my pups. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

January 25, 2017 at 12:20 pm #93920 Report Abuse

Cannoli
Member

Are these dog puppies or are they already grown?

I would skip the brown rice unless your dogs can’t handle a high protein diet.

I would rotate proteins. I prefer to feed my dog more red meat and chicken and turkey more as a treat.

I also prefer to add more organ meat and add tripe but you need to be careful with organ meat since you are already feeding your pups vitamins.

I like to rotate calcium sources too. Sometimes add ground shells, or ground bone, or calcium supplements. I also like to rotate veggies and supplements.

In short this is a good recipe for a short time but ideally the best recipes involve ROTATION of different sources of meat and fish (if your pup has no allergies) rotation of supplments..Maybe use some organic supplements, rotation of veggies, etc to prevent deficiencies.

January 26, 2017 at 6:36 pm #94019 Report Abuse

Acroyali
Member

Please, too, keep in mind that hearts and gizzards, while nutritious, aren’t technically organs. If you’re looking for organs vs. a multi, think things that secrete (liver, pancreas, spleen, etc. Kidney is good, too.)

I agree with Cannoli on more rotation, and maybe lessening the grains.

This is also just my personal opinion, but cooking in the microwave pretty much zaps all nutrients and enzymes right out of the food. If possible, I would experiment with steaming the veggies on the stove.

February 9, 2017 at 4:03 pm #94384 Report Abuse

HoundMusic
Participant

Your diet looks good! My only suggestion would be to ditch the brown rice in favor of white because of the high arsenic levels and the phytic acid in brown rice. The latter is an anti-nutrient that will prevent them from absorbing minerals such as calcium & iron. I noticed in my own dogs an immediate increase in weight (they were too skinny) and improved activity when I nixed brown rice.

I also add sweet potatoes to their basic recipe for the Vitamin A, C, and potassium that can be harder to come by in homecooked diets.

October 1, 2017 at 1:52 pm #104809 Report Abuse

poodaddy
Member

Here is my “3 cents” on the “raw dog food” subject: (1) there is the observation aspect of positive change in stool, gland secretion, in some cases behavior, athletic performance noticeable by all those I am associated with in the transition of commercial to raw (not cooked), (2) there is the science aspect of knowing through nutrition science what the menu actually is from researching/collecting the food data and analyzing it for macro, micro, vitamin, fatty acids data, and (3) there is the analytical aspect of comparing the menu results from (2) above to industry standards for minimum daily requirements adapted to your dog’s lifestyle/function and supplementing the raw menu to meet that standard.

I have completed (1) and (2) in an open Excel system and am working toward (3) at this time. I am interested in collaborating with a group of people who are highly interested in the above, and in so doing move the raw food discussion to a far higher level.

October 10, 2017 at 2:29 am #105040 Report Abuse

poodaddy
Member

Going to run this through my model and report what it looks like. Will report out as soon as I collect the nutrient data for Kevin B’s menu. My model DB has raw ingredients and is not set up for what Kevin B is doing, i.e. cooking dis and dat but will be an interesting exercise to see what pops out of the program.

October 10, 2017 at 9:45 pm #105057 Report Abuse

pugmomsandy
Participant

There are some recipes in this topic as well:

/forums/topic/menus/

HoundDogMom has a recipe that exceeds AAFCO recommended profiles somewhere in this topic.

October 11, 2017 at 4:01 pm #105086 Report Abuse

poodaddy
Member

The below was a response to a thread created in the “Trolls and Spam” area of this forum. It was loosely related to a perception that a raw dog food model may be a homeopathic method. So the response below was generated. I thought those of you interested in this raw food thread may also be interested in the below response to anan101.

October 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm
#105078

@anon101

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

October 16, 2017 at 12:06 am #105205 Report Abuse

poodaddy
Member

Does anyone have more complete /consistent data for the Prosense Vitamin for dogs? It seems a bit strange to me that a portion of the nutrients are listed in a % and others listed in mg.

Here is the manufacturer’s link for nutrition data: http://www.prosensepet.com/solutions/vitamin-solutions-for-dogs.aspx. What I need is the following:

(1) What is the standard that the %s listed below are applied to? I need to derive or get the mg Protein 16%, Carborhydrate (not listed) and Fat 0.3% … and mg associated with the percents shown for Calcium 6%, Phosphorous 5%, Magnesium 0.1% , and Potassium 0.3%?

=== Prosense Vitamin Data per tablet ===
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
PER TABLET (MINIMUM VALUES UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED)
Crude Protein……………………………………………………….…16.0%
Crude Fat…………………………………………………………………0.3%
Moisture (max.)……………………………………………………….10.0%
Linoleic Acid……………………………………………………………..0.005 %
Calcium…………………………………………………………………….6.0%
Phosphorous……………………………………………………………..4.5%
Potassium………………………………………………………………….0.3%
Magnesium………………………………………………………………0.1%
Iron………………………………………………………….…………….1.5 mg
Copper……………………………………………………….…………0.03 mg
Manganese………………………………………………….………….0.07 mg
Zinc………………………………………………………………………..0.8 mg
Iodine…………………………………………………………………..0.05 mg
Vitamin A……………………………………………………………….1200 IU
Vitamin D3………………………………………………………………150 IU
Vitamin E…………………………………………………….……….…….6 IU
Thiamine (Vitamin B1)……………………………………..………0.8 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)…………………………………………….1.5 mg
Niacinamide (Vitamin B3)…………………………………..…….9.5 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)…………………………………..……..0.06 mg
Vitamin B12…………………………………………………….…….2.0 mcg
Cobalt*…………………………………………………………………0.01 mg
Ascorbic Acid* (source of Vitamin C) ………………………….25 mg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles

Calorie Content (calculated)
2,550 ME kcal/kg (6.9 ME kcal/tablet)
This product is intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only.

DIRECTIONS AND DOSAGE

<10 lbs……………….½ Tablet Daily
10-50 lbs………………1 Tablet Daily
>50 lbs……………….2 Tablets Daily

November 4, 2017 at 8:50 pm #105788 Report Abuse

poodaddy
Member

For anyone interested, KevinB included, made some time to do some modifications, for”other than raw food”, to the Canine Nutrition application (in development) and the below is the output. Note that since I have still been unable to get a response from the manufacturer of Prosense Vitamins (Dale) (see above), I have not included any contribution to the diet of KevinB’s menu. Here is the output. What is not included below is a comparison of the menu to a standard, such as FEDIAF Nutrient Guidelines Canines or AAFCO Nutrient Requirements for Dogs as such, the below stops short of “analysis”. Copying data from Excel into this web page is problematic. Perhaps someone can instrucvt me on how to do it so the data stays aligned and tabular. Each of you can assess the menu now based on the nutrition science data for the food groups listed. All data was taken from nutritiondata.com which uses the USDA tables as the foundation. I have not yet found an instance where nutritiondata.com foods did not align with the USDA testing/data. I have QA-checked about a hundred (80%) and so far 100% checks with USDA databases.

FOOD GROUP Weight g %
ORGAN-MARROW 226.7960 3.89%
MUSCLE MEAT 3095.5520 53.16%
VEGITABLE/FRUIT 2501.1560 42.95%
OIL (Supplement) 0.0000 0.00%
MACROMINERALS (Supplement) 0.0000 0.00%
MACRONUTRIENTS g per day % per day
Prot 73.3489 53.40%
Carb 41.8999 30.51%
Fat 22.1016 16.09%
kcal (449 calc) 650.3830
kcal (ref calc) 670.3673
MACROMINERALS mg per day % per day
Calcium 220.2701 3.78%
*Phosphorous 490.8865 8.43%
Magnesium 114.1447 1.96%
Potassium 536.6109 9.21%
Sodium 152.5461 2.62%
Chloride 0.0000 0.00%
MICROMINERALS mg per day % per day
*Zinc 17.9585 0.31%
*Copper 0.6985 0.01%
*Iron 7.6319 0.13%
*Selenium 0.0901 0.00%
Iodine 0.0000 0.00%
Manganese 1.8323 0.03%
Chromium 0.0000 0.00%
Cobalt 0.0000 0.00%
Fluorine 0.0014 0.00%
Molybdenum 0.0000 0.00%
Silicon 0.0000 0.00%
Sulfur 0.0000 0.00%
VITAMINS mg per day % per day
Vitamin A 1.4918 0.03%
Vitamin B1 (Thiamin) 0.2384 0.00%
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 0.6905 0.01%
Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 6.6424 0.11%
Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) 2.8011 0.05%
Vitamin B6 (piridoxine) 0.7010 0.01%
Vitamin B7 (Biotin) 0.0000 0.00%
Vitamin B9 (Folic Acid) 0.0328 0.00%
Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin) 0.0014 0.00%
Vitamin C 1.9644 0.03%
Vitamin D 0.0003 0.00%
Vitamin E 1.8694 0.03%
Vitamin K 0.0220 0.00%
Choline 243.2345 4.18%
FATS & FATTY ACIDS mg per day % per day
Polyunsaturated Fat (Omega-3) 439.6228 7.55%
Polyunsaturated Fat (Omega-6) 5010.4205 86.04%
Saturated Fat (g) 6.8897 0.12%
Monounsaturated Fat (g) 5.7914 0.10%
Polyunsaturated Fat (g) 6.1491 0.11%
Cholesterol 425.9580 7.31%
DATA & METRICS
Dog weight units lb
Dog weight 27.5
MERF 1.4
RER (kcal/day/dog) 464.5593
MER (kcal/day/dog) 650.3830
kcal/batch 8130.6591
Days/dog/batch 12.5013
Weight Batch g (no bone) 5823.5040
Weight Bone g 0.0000
Batch g per day per dog 465.8303
Ca:P 0.4487
Fat:Prot 0.3013
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