V-Dog (Dry)

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Rating: ★★☆☆☆

V-Dog vegan dog food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The V-Dog product line includes one dry dog food, a recipe claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance.

V-Dog

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 26% | Fat = 5% | Carbs = 61%

Ingredients: Dried peas, brown rice, pea protein concentrate, oats, sorghum, lentils, canola oil, peanuts, sunflower hearts, potato protein, brewers dried yeast, alfalfa meal, flaxseeds, natural vegetable flavor, quinoa, millet, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, vegetable pomace (carrot, celery, beet, parsley, lettuce, watercress & spinach), taurine, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D2 supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium metabisulfite complex, folic acid), choline chloride, minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite & calcium iodate), dl-methionine, l-lysine, l-carnitine, parsley flakes, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), dried cranberries, dried blueberries, preserved with citric acid and mixed tocopherols (form of vitamin E)

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 10.4%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis24%5%NA
Dry Matter Basis26%5%61%
Calorie Weighted Basis26%13%62%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

Peas consist of mostly primarily carbohydrates. Yet they do contain about 25% protein.

The second ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The third ingredient is pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.

Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

The fourth ingredient is oats. Oats are rich in B-vitamins, minerals and dietary fiber.

The fifth ingredient is sorghum. Sorghum (milo) is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.

Since it is gluten-free and boasts a smoother blood sugar behavior than other grains, sorghum may be considered an acceptable non-meat ingredient.

The sixth ingredient is lentils. Lentils are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber. Lentils contain about 25% protein.

The seventh ingredient is canola oil. Many applaud canola for its favorable omega-3 content while a vocal minority condemn it as an unhealthy fat.

Much of the objection regarding canola oil appears to be related to the use of genetically modified rapeseed as its source material.

Yet others find the negative stories about canola oil more the stuff of urban legend than actual science.1

In any case, plant-based oils like canola are less biologically available to a dog than fish oil as a source of quality omega-3 fats.

The eighth ingredient lists peanuts. Peanuts are not true nuts but rather legumes similar to beans and peas. They are rich in mono-saturated fats and dietary fiber.

The ninth ingredient includes sunflower hearts. Sunflower hearts consist of the hulled kernel of the whole seed. They are rich in omega-6 fatty oils, vitamins A and E as well as dietary fiber.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

Next, the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

And lastly, this dog food also contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.

Since vitamin K isn’t required by AAFCO in either of its dog food nutrient profiles, we question the use of this substance in any canine formulation.

V-Dog Dog Food
The Bottom Line

V-Dog is — by design — a meatless product.

So, although we do recognize the need for some dog owners to provide (for whatever reason) a completely meat-free diet, we also respect a dog’s natural carnivorous bias.

For this reason, the highest rating awarded any vegetarian dog food found on this website can never exceed two stars.

That said, and before we determine our final rating, it’s still important to estimate how much plant-based protein might be present.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 26%, a fat level of 5% and estimated carbohydrates of about 61%.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 20%.

Below-average protein. Below-average fat. And above-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Bottom line?

V-Dog is a plant-based meatless kibble that uses peas, pea protein concentrate and lentils as its main sources of protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

11/18/2012 Original review
11/18/2012 Last Update

  1. Mikkelson, B and DP, Oil of Ole, Urban Legends Reference Pages (2005)
  • Thea

    Yes for as long as I had him. I got him from a shelter when he was about 3 years old. I have no idea what he ate before that.

    Why do you ask?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Was Innova the only other food he ate prior to v-dog?

  • Thea

    re: balanceit.com

    Interesting link! Thanks for sharing it.

    Take care.

  • Thea

    That’s a great story. Thanks for sharing.

  • losul

    I asked out of nothing more than curiosity and interest. Thanks for the replies.

  • Shawna

    Sorry, one last thought.. You state “my dogs health improved dramatically when”…… I’d like to share my success story with you..

    My dog Audrey, the one pictured in my avatar, has had kidney disease since birth (called congenital kidney disease). I once read in The Merck Vet Manual that dogs with congenital kd have a life expectancy of age two or two years after diagnosis if symptoms aren’t from birth.

    Audrey had symptoms that we noticed at about six weeks of age and she was officially diagnosed at her one year checkup / blood work.
    Audrey was weaned onto a raw, high meat protein diet and has been on that same diet of about 45 to 54% protein her whole life. Audrey will be seven years old the end of June this year. Other than nutraceuticals and vitamins she is also unmedicated and never has taken any meds or required sub-q fluids etc.

    I don’t think that Audrey would still be with me on a vegan diet as the bioavailabity of the amino acids are not as high as in animal based proteins which would lead to higher BUN and death by poisoning. :(

    I don’t want to negate positive results others have found on this food just want to share my experience with you.. :)

  • Shawna

    I’m assuming you are discussing the Hunzas as they ate the least amount of meat of the centenarian groups that have been studied extensively. I think it is a bit unfair to compare people living in the foothills and mountains of Pakistan to people living in the arctic with polar bears and sea lions.

    I am a Weston Price follower (as is my M.D./CCN, father (a retired Naturopath), Dentist etc. It’s ALL around me :) … LOL Anyway Price, being a dentist, gaged health on dental findings first — was the jaw wide enough to accommodate the teeth, were there cavities and other signs of malnutrition. Then stature and endurance. He found the inuits to be quite healthy.

    I don’t feed kibble to my dogs (foster dogs get kibble with raw and canned toppers). If you even want to pursue a more natural and healthful diet for your furkids consider looking at sites like http://www.balanceit.com You can enter healthful foods you want to feed like tempeh, fermented coconut water or veggies and sprouted grains and it will tell you what nutrients are lacking. Then you can customize by adding foods high in those nutrients like soaked brazil nuts for magnesium etc.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on diet but its been very enjoyable conversing with you..

  • Thea

    I forgot to mention: After switching to v-dog, my dog’s poops became consistently firm. Prior to v-dog, his poops were loose more often than I thought was good. Not all the time, but enough to notice a difference after we switched foods. Not a fun topic, but worth mentioning.

  • Thea

    Sure. My dog was peeing blood, often dark red blood. He did that off and on, mostly on, for 2 years. We did blood tests, x-rays, etc. The only thing they were able to confirm was that yes, he was peeing blood (as opposed to red food coloring or something) and no, it was not an infection. I don’t know if other people would consider this a serious problem or not, but I did.

    In addition to the peeing blood going away, my dog’s happy/properly high energy level returned, his coat got shinier, and interesting enough, his nails went back to their previous gloss that had disappeared about the time he had started peeing blood.

    Why do you ask?

  • losul

    Hello Thea.

    You said your dog had several problems, including a serious one that the vets and tests couldn’t figure out, and the problems went away after switching from Innova to V-dog.
    ——————–
    “Prior to changing to v-dog, my dog was on Innova. He was experiencing several problems, including a serious health problem that the vets and many tests could not figure out. After switching to v-dog, those problems went away.”

    ——————–
    I’m very curious. Could you please explain these prior problems, and especially the serious one? Thnx.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    The recent study published showing that dogs digest starch
    more efficiently than wolves is being misinterpreted by many – including yourself
    if it’s leading you to assuming that dogs require a diet high in starch (such
    as in V Dog). This study in no way shows that a diet high in starch is superior
    to a diet high in protein and fat (a species-appropriate diet) – it merely
    shows dogs have adapted to better digest starch. So what? If a study came out
    showing humans have become more efficient at digesting sugar and trans fats
    than our ancestors would you interpret that as meaning diets high in sugar and
    trans fats are healthier? Also, don’t forget, dietary ingredients alter the gut
    flora. High protein diets will result in a gut populated with greater levels of
    proteolytic bacteria (protein digesting) and high carbohydrate diets will
    result in a gut populated with more saccharolytic bacteria (carbohydrate digesting).
    So dogs eating a high protein diet will digest protein more efficiently, dogs
    eating a high carbohydrate diet will adapt and digest carbohydrates more
    efficiently. This study does nothing to examine long term effects of a
    species-appropriate diet versus a high carbohydrate diet. Please point me to a
    study showing that high carbohydrate diets provide benefit over high protein
    diets.

  • Thea

    re: “people can get away with eating a WIDE variety of REAL food.”

    Your choice of words here is perfect. “get away with” is exactly right. However, if you want to live a long, healthy life in both body and mind, that is a different question entirely.

    Take those Inuits for example. Inuits are not examples of healthy humans. When they did the study on the Inuits, they couldn’t find a single person over 53 years old. When you look at populations where people routinely live over 100 years and are most healthy in body and mind, those populations all share something in common. No, they were not vegan. However, they came very close. Meat was at most, 2-3% of calorie intake. I surmise that those populations did so well in spite of those 2-3%, not because of it. (If interested, you could read: “HEALTHY AT 100: The Scientifically Proven Secrets of the World’s Healthiest and Longest-Lived Peoples” by John Robbins)

    Vegans live significantly longer, have less cancer, less heart disease, less diabetes, stronger bones, etc. I don’t just want to get away with living past reproductive age. I want to thrive. I’ll skip the Alzheimers, cancer, etc. I don’t care how far along our medical industry has come. It’s better not to get those things in the first place.

    I hope you live a long healthy life too.

  • Thea

    Shawna,
    I agree, we would likely be friends. I like your posting “voice”.

    Re: “I don’t get this?”
    That’s a really great question. It does appear that my stance does not make sense–unless you know these thoughts nestled in my head:

    1) While I agree that whole foods are best in theory, we don’t know enough (not enough studies) about dogs to know what that diet would look like. Dogs are newish creatures. And dogs are not wolves. The small changes in biology between wolves and dogs not only lead to major changes in temperament, but also in ideal diet. For example, I’m sure you are aware of the recent study that showed that dogs digestive systems differ from wolves in that dogs digest starches better. So, not having a definitive understanding of what an ideal diet for a dog would look like, one of the main factors we can use to determine the best diet for dogs is what works best in practice. Which leads to:

    2) My dog’s health improved dramatically when I switched to v-dog. I’ve read all sorts of similar anecdotes of dog health from other owners, including on this page.

    3) I don’t agree with your full characterization of v-dog (msg enriched, synthetically enhance), but I would fully agree with saying that v-dog is a processed food. But I would not agree that v-dog is any more processed than any other kibble. Since I don’t feel confident that I can feed my dog a whole food diet that is good for him, but I am confident that I can feed my dog a kibble that works, then I am in the world of processed foods no matter what when it comes to feeding my dog.

    4) The goal then, is to get the best processed food/kibble – one that not only meets nutritional needs, but is free of contaminants as much as possible. It is a standard biology principle that contaminants get more concentrated the higher up you move on the food chain. Thus, while I don’t have chemical analysis on this, I believe that I have the best chance of limiting the contaminants that go into my dog’s body by having him on a vegan kibble. It would be better if it were organic. But even without that, I suspect that the food my dog eats is far “cleaner” than what most other dogs eat.

    I know that many people will not agree with the points above. But the points above do explain why I believe that feeding my dog v-dog perfectly match my goal of feeding him the healthiest diet I can.

  • Shawna

    Hi Thea,

    LOL, I JUST in the last two weeks used the very same argument about smoking as you used. :) I think we could likely be friends, albeit with differing points of view, if we knew each other offline.

    If you think about it, people can get away with eating a WIDE variety of REAL food. The Inuits ate mostly fat and meat while those in the Mediterranean ate fish and veggies (simplistically speaking). Some American Indians ate a considerable amount of meat (I have Cherokee blood in me). The thing that tied all these diets together—-they all consisted of food made by nature.

    You obviously agree with the value of real food versus processed, man made concoctions. Which leads me back to dog food. You see the value of feeding humans real food but seemingly endorse a highly processed, msg enriched, protein isolate/concentrate packed, synthetically enhanced, pelleted food for dogs? I don’t get this?

  • Shawna

    Are we a bit type A personality HDM? LOL. I thought I had a busy schedule….. WOW

  • lollypupgirl

    Update on LIVER DISEASE!!!
    Thanks for the nice comments on my videos! I recently found that the meats that are high in copper are hard on the dogs liver. I now am trying to stick with more chicken and turkey. I also found out that thistle milk is good for the dogs liver along with vitamin E. I am doing these things for my dog which is 18 years old and is in PERFECT health other than her liver enzymes are testing high lately. I cut out the salty lamb sausage roll by Dick Van Patten (which I love) and I use leaner meats along with more vitamin E and Thistle milk. I will update everyone on how the test result turns out after doing all these things! As you may have seen my videos I do home cook so I do have to keep up on these things to make a well balanced diet. I also am happy to say with my video on dog food recipe that I use my dogs other test for sugar, protein and ext were A+…. I also eliminated processed cheese out of my recipe too. Anything that may be hard on the liver I eliminated. (including cod-liver oil) Hope this helps someone! TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOGS LIVER!!!!! No more chemicals and preservatives including flea drops and commercial dog foods… There are so many other alternatives that are safer!!
    Hugs to you all!
    Lollypupgirl Dog Blogs.

  • beaglemom

    I know this was posted awhile ago but what a great video — I can’t wait to look through the rest of your blog for more ideas lollypupgirl. Thanks for posting this!

  • Pattyvaughn

    I would agree that food animals deserve better. They should be raised humanely before they are eaten. They taste better that way too.

  • beaglemom

    A true animal lover recognizes the reality of nature’s food chain and honors the natural diet of each species. Do you expect wolves to stop hunting and eating deer?

  • smitty

    Congratulations Rae and Thea!

    Don’t let the negativity get to you. A true animal lover realizes that all animals deserve better, not just dogs.

  • Shawna

    Oops, I meant to add this one but forgot.

    Dr. Barnard discusses increased IGF-1 in dairy drinkers and the increased risk of hormone type cancers (he discusses prostate). This made me think about the hormone that they give some dairy cattle called RBGh. A google search pulled up this from the Cancer.org website.

    “Some studies have shown that adults who drink milk have about 10% higher levels of IGF-1 in their blood than those who drink little or no milk. But this same finding has also been reported in people who drink soymilk.” http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/recombinant-bovine-growth-hormone Dr. Barnard advocates for soymilk per the above linked video.

  • Pattyvaughn

    WOW HDM!! If it was me, I wouldn’t know if I was coming or going.

  • Shawna

    I started watching a video lecture by Dr. Barnard and he has some GREAT info but he only discusses half the data. I’ve only made it through half the lecture at the time I wrote this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWLnlhLNa28

    Example he discusses the opiate affect of sugar and dairy but no mention of the opiate affect from gluten grains. He discusses the addictive affect of cheese but no mention that free glutamic acid is generated in the production of cheese and MSG and other excitiotoxins are added to vegetarian and vegan foods too (soy protein isolate as an example). I do agree that caseine and therefore the opiate BCM7 is more concentrated in cheese though.

    He discusses saturated fat, cholesterol, impotence and heart disease. However there are several studies that suggest saturated fat is not a factor in heart disease. Weston price discusses this http://www.westonaprice.org/cardiovascular-disease/myths-a-truths-about-cholesterol Dr. Barnard made me think of something else when he brought up impotence. Impotence is also a symptom of chemical toxicity (as in pesticides sprayed on fruits and veggies as well as many others). Certified Clinical Nutritionist Rhadia Glees (sp?) discusses how these same toxins increase cholesterol at the 7:22 minute mark of the following video (environmental as well as dietary). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMiBuAWvDB0

    Dr. Barnard is cherry picking his research. Not saying that is bad as I do the very same thing however I am saying the conclusion from doing so, even my own conclusions, may be a bit narrow.

    I haven’t yet heard his data on fat and diabetes and am running out of time today but I do hope to get to that this weekend.

    I should note that like HDM, I eat very little meat (more than her however). But I do require some to feel my best.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Yeah I work too. I’ve mastered multi-tasking and it definitely helps that I don’t sleep much – it’s going to get interesting this fall, I’ve decided to go back to school lol. Something’s going to have to get cut out.

  • InkedMarie

    Yeh, working out, hiking, the hounds, helping us plus you have a job too, right?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Find time for what, workouts? I don’t swim anymore but in high school and college I practiced 5:30 – 7:30 a.m. and 3:30 – 6:00 p.m. on weekdays and 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. on Saturdays. Now I just kind of manage to squeeze a workout in when I can (an I incorporate the dogs when possible) – I’ve been running 5 miles with Gertie 3 or 4 days a week, when I’ve got tv shows to catch up on I’ll multitask by going on the elliptical while watching tv, my boyfriend and I usually take the dogs hiking on days off, etc. It also helps that I get up so early – there’s so much more time to fit things in when you get up at 4 a.m. lol

  • InkedMarie

    When do you find time to do all that ?

  • Kate

    What’s best for dogs’ health is meat. I do not know how anyone in good conscience could expect a meat-eating animal to live on this.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Thea –

    Thanks for the website but I was replying to Shawna about an experience I’ve had – I wasn’t trying to debate with you about vegan athletes not do I have any desire to. I had a 10 year swimming career, I competed internationally and trained with individuals who went on to qualify for nationals, olympic trials, swim D1, etc. I know what athletes competing at that level eat/require.

  • Thea

    Hound Dog Mom,

    This is getting way, way off-topic, so I won’t go into detail. But I had a hard time passing up commenting on this: “She had a nutritionist that her mom hired formulating her menus, she completely deteriorated within about a month, she could hardly even finish the sets at practice.”

    She clearly had a nutritionist who didn’t know what she was doing. Athletes who switch to a healthy whole-plant food based diet (not just vegan) usually experience a mild to significant improvement in their performance, including high day-to-day energy levels. Here’s one of my favorite examples if you are interested, but there are many others, listed on the following site and others.
    http://www.greatveganathletes.com/vegan_athlete_ruth-heidrich

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Concerning vegetarian diets and not being able to remain healthy – I know I’ve mentioned before that I don’t eat much meat. I’ve noticed that whenever I go more than 2 or 3 days without meat I start to feel tired and my muscles don’t seem to recover as quickly after my workouts (I do a lot of running, elliptical trainer, hiking, etc.) despite the fact that I eat a lot of eggs/dairy/nut butters to compensate on my meat free days. I’m not really a big fan of meat (unless it’s a cheeseburger lol), I eat it more out of necessity – I kind of “force” myself to have a meat-based dinner every 2 or 3 days and that’s working for me. I had a friend back in high school on my swim team that tried to go vegan – we were training 24 hours per weak, heavy training. She had a nutritionist that her mom hired formulating her menus, she completely deteriorated within about a month, she could hardly even finish the sets at practice.

  • Shawna

    I have a hard time believing that but I will definitley look at his writings.

    I would encourage you to research lectins and insulin resistance as well. Keep in mind that some protein sources (like dairy) have damaging lectins as well so I’m not singling out grains/plants here.

    PS — I have a friend who is intolerant of the lectins known as gluten. She lost 50 pounds in 6 months when she gave up gluten grains.

    PSS — I went vegetarian for a little over a year but I simply couldn’t remain healthy on the diet. I used cookbooks etc but it just didn’t work for me. My favorite vets however (two of them) are both vegetarians (I think Dr. Goldstein may even be vegan) but they both feed their dogs raw, with high meat protein and no grains.

  • Thea

    Shawna: Your statement consists of old and incorrect information. Insulin increase in the blood is a *symptom* of diabetes, not the cause. Symptoms and causes are different things.

    If you want to educate yourself on the topic of diabetes and healthy eating, I encourage you to read the book “Dr. Neal Barnard’s Program for Reversing Diabetes: The Scientifically Proven System for Reversing Diabetes without Drugs” There is a long history and lots of science behind the book. It’s not just one doctor’s opinion.

    It is understandable why you think the way you do. Lots of people, including sadly, doctors, still repeat that miss-information. Happily, Dr. Bernard’s diet is clinically proven to be 3 times more effective in treating diabetes than diets which which focus on carb reduction. He explains in his book how type 2 diabetes is likely caused, why his diet works, and the best, easiest way to eat in order to avoid or reverse type 2 diabetes symptoms.

    Good luck.

  • Shawna

    That is amazing success..

    I think some dogs might have MAJOR issues with this particular food, over time, though. The main protein is “pea protein concentrate” which is a source of the very very very damaging (to those suseptible) MSG. Actually, just the G in MSG. I have diagnosed via MRI brain damage caused by MSG. Dogs are not exempt.

    Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock has an excellent, but VERY technical, book on MSG (plus other excitotoxins) called “Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills”. PS, excitotoxins are usually added to food as a “flavor enhancer”. I can see why a dog would like this food.. Glutamate gives foods a “savory” taste by tricking the brain.

  • Shawna

    Dietary fat does not cause diabetes in humans. Foods that increase insulin as well as leptin do. As do foods that contain lectins that an individual is intolerant of — example dairy or gluten from wheat, rye, barley and contaminated oats. The lectins in these foods bind with insulin receptors causing insulin resistance. It hasn’t been proven to my knowledge but I imagine these same lectins can bind with insulin receptors in dogs too.

  • Thea

    Rae: 16-18 years. That’s AWESOME! Thanks for sharing.

    FYI: For treats, my dog drools for watermelon and sugar snap peas. He does not feel any any deprivation. For kibble: I did side-by-side taste tests of meat kibble vs v-dog. I tested again and again in various ways. He showed no preference for one kibble over the other. Again, no deprivation. And his health is great.

    In a side-by-side test of fudge vs kale, I always prefer the fudge. But I know which is healthier for me. :-)

  • JellyCat

    Depriving dogs of tasty meat and bones is immoral. The approach you offer isn’t necessary good or even better. All it does is serving your egotism.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rae-Sikora/1656464255 Rae Sikora

    Well, my last 8 dogs have been vegan and lived healthy, very active lives for 16-18 years. I am happy to not cause incredible animal suffering and death to many animals in order to feed my companion animals. What they prefer in a side by side test may not reflect what is best for their health, the planet or other species.

  • Thea

    My dog is a Great Dane. I started feeding him v-dog when he was 6 years old. He is 9 years old now. His health is *fantastic*, not just based on living with him, but based on senior dog tests/bloodwork my vet does. (For people who may not be familiar with Great Danes, I understand their average age is 8-10 years.)

    Prior to changing to v-dog, my dog was on Innova. He was experiencing several problems, including a serious health problem that the vets and many tests could not figure out. After switching to v-dog, those problems went away.

    When people look at my 9 year old Great Dane and see how youthful he not only looks, but acts, they can’t believe he is 9.

    This is just a single anecdote, but given all the many similar anecdotes out there, plus some of the scientific literature, I think the author of this post should re-visit some of his basic assumptions about nutritional needs for dogs.

    Re: Diabetes
    Some posters on this page have expressed a concern about vegan kibbles somehow causing canine diabetes. Type 2 diabetes in humans is caused by excessive fat eating. I don’t know what would cause it in dogs, but I can’t imagine why it would have anything to do with carbs. Concerns about diabetes were never on my list of concerns when switching to a vegan kibble.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Melissa-Swanson-V/100000742467331 Melissa Swanson Ⓥ

    My rats absolutely adore this food. They do fantastic on it. I’d highly recommend it to any rat parent looking for a good quality kibble for their kids. And V-Dog is GMO-free. So, that point holds.

  • Alexandra

    Have to disagree as you can’t argue based on genetics, their DNA is 99.9 similar to that of a wolf. They are non obligate carnivores, meaning they can SURVIVE on plant matter, THRIVING is an entirely different matter.

    Second, those teeth and their digestive tracts are not designed to digest plants. They have fast rates of digestion, it takes longer to break down plant matter. Those teeth are to rip meat off of bone.

    Going against Mother Nature because you or others choose to be vegetarian, and there is nothing wrong with that, BUT you can’t take the carnivore out of the dog, it will do more harm then good. Plant material is not utilized by them as efficiently as meet.

    As for obesity and other health problems, the meat isn’t the problem. It’s the carbs in the lower end foods, it is a lack of exercise, it is over feeding, it may even be genetic…feeding species appropriate diets, raw meat, in particular goes a long way toward ideal health.

  • LabsRawesome

    Omg get serious

  • Shikarpuri

    An interesting recent study shows that dog genes evolved to digest wheat protein, something their very close relatives–the wolves–cannot do. Dogs in India do fine on a vegetarian diet when living with vegetarians. (Cats are a different story as they cannot synthesize Taurine). There is no reason to impose a bias on dogs. Besides, domestic dogs don’t get the same exercise as wolves and can suffer from obesity and heart disease! Vegetarian diets may mitigate this.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Eating dead mites would cause the exact same reaction that eating live mites would cause. Your dog that is allergic to chicken wasn’t swallowing chickens alive, all the same allergins are still there.

  • JohnC

    My six year old German Shepherd is severely allergic to all Meats, Dust Mites and Dry Food Mites. I tried V-Dog as it was the only vegan food available to me at that time (18 months or so ago).

    After freezing his portions to kill the mites he’s done wonderful on it (all dry food has mites). At 30″ tall when on all fours, he maintains a healthy weight of 92lbs. and his body fat is less than 2%. He receives a shot every 10 days for the dust mites and the combination of V-Dog and medication has drastically reduced his over-all allergy symptoms.

    If Vegan food only earns a 2 Star Rating how is one to know which Vegan food to choose providing that one MUST feed their Dog Vegan Food?

  • LabsRawesome

    I agree. Hydrogenated oils are deadly. I only buy Skippy Natural Peanut Butter… no Hydro oils.

  • losul

    Not immediately lethal no, but aflatoxins are more damaging and carcinogeinic to dogs than humans, and they buld up in the liver. There’s no reason to add fuel to the fire. The natural P.B.’s from health food stores had some of the highest levels, some even over the FDA guidelines.

    Skippy creamy P.B.

    INGREDIENTS: ROASTED PEANUTS, SUGAR, HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE OILS (COTTONSEED, SOYBEAN AND RAPESEED) TO PREVENT SEPARATION, SALT.;

    Jif creamy P.B.

    Ingredients:

    MADE FROM ROASTED PEANUTS AND SUGAR, MOLASSES, FULLY HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE OILS (RAPESEED AND SOYBEAN), MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, SALT.

    Great Value crunchy P.B (Walmart)

    INGREDIENTS: PEANUTS, SUGAR, HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE OIL, (RAPESEED, COTTONSEED, SOYBEAN), DEXTROSE, SALT, MOLASSES, MONOGLYCERIDES

    Peter Pan P.B. could not get ingredients online, but ingredients are very similar.

    Now, how about you tell me what the [expletive deleted by me] kind of Cheap P.B. are you eating?

  • InkedMarie

    I’m surprised this food even get two stars.

  • lollypupgirl

    Awwwww Thanks you so much Hound Dog Mom!!!! I learn from all these wonderful people in this chat room giving tips and ideas! I will keep trying harder to feed my dogs as good as I possibly can. Thanks for watching my video! Love people like you!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Awesome video lollypupgirl! I can see you made a lot of changes – it looks good. Feeding homemade is definitely a learning experience. I’ve been doing it for over a year and a half now and I’m always tweaking things with my menus the more I learn. :)

  • lollypupgirl

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2IKkIfrCI
    If anyone is interested in my dogs menu this week. LOL I cook something different for them weekly! Check it out! I am trying to perfect there diet! I am getting there!

  • aimee

     JellyCat,

    You can insist that carbs play a significant role, but it is your opinion, and like belly buttons everybody has one!

    The research hasn’t found diet to be a risk factor in the development of DM.

    Heck even the ADA puts “eating too much sugar causes diabetes” in their myth section.
     
     My point is simple. There are not any causal links between carbs and DM in dogs or cats. There is no basis for telling a poster that feeding a carb based diet may make his/her animal diabetic.

  • JellyCat

    Some subjects are very well researched. DM in cats is obviously not,  because there is no money in this research. It is only valuable to food manufacturers as they need to know how much carbs they can add to food without killing the animal right away.
    Cardiovascular disease in humans is very well researched and still you cannot say that high density lipoprotein causes heart disease, it only increases risk. Nevertheless, drug companies sell statins and make a good profit.

  • JellyCat

     aimee, sorry for saying that the article is a “letter to the editor”. It is a “special report” but still similar as it is not even an original study and his refs. do not include many randomized control trials or any other decent design studies. Such publication typically do not undergo peer review process but only editor review because this is not a study.
    Other that that it is a good quality opinion piece.
    The author of this report is trying to demonstrate that the cause of diabetes is not that simple and that there are risk factors other than diet. But again, there is no causal relation between diabetes and risk factors he is mentioning. There is only correlation. Knowing pathophysiology of DM and nature of a disease in cats I can still insist that carbs play a significant role. However, I do agree with the author that cause is multifactorial.   Just like not every person who drinks tons of pop gets diabetes obviously. Even health care providers would advise you that high consumption of sugar can contribute to DM. It is incorrect to say that sugar causes diabetes.

  • aimee

    losul,
    .
    This is exactly the type of article I was referring to. There is a lot of “may be”, “could be”, “it is hypothesized”, “the theory is” .  But when it comes to data to support the idea even this article reports” diet was not found to be a significant risk factor in the study of 66 Burmese cats”

    This is why in the abstract  you will see a list of known risk factors : obesity, male gender, indoor confinement etc but diet is not listed. Diet is separated out as “may predispose” to obesity and diabetes. It was an unknown at the time.

     So far the research done to investigate the “may be” “could be” hasn’t verified the connection. This is why I say it is incorrect to say carbs cause diabetes. As of yet there is no data to support that statement.

  • losul

    Aimee,

    While I’m basically very much satisfied with the argument and answers you gave me, this long article (yes it’s pre-2005) from 2004, seems to VERY much support what Jellycat says about cats, carbs, and diabetes, because cats are much more prone to a type of diabetes analogous to type 2 diabetes in humans. Seems to be backed by a whole slew of references, don’t know if their “peer” reviewed and such, but seems pretty definitive/convincing to me. Anyway here it is.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2072S.long

  • aimee

    JellyCat,

    I’m not sure where you got the idea that Buffington’s review was a letter to the editor as it is not identified as such and I’d imagine the article underwent peer review.

    After review of the current literature Buffington doesn’t conclude that carbs cause diabetes does he? In fact he leads us to the opposite conclusion. “Current published evidence thus does not support a direct role for diet
    in general, or carbohydrates in particular, on disease risk in domestic
    cats.”
     
    I understand wanting to see the original studies.  The references are given. Here is a link to one of them.

    “Indoor confinement and physical inactivity rather than the
    proportion of dry food are risk factors in the development of feline
    type 2 diabetes mellitus.”
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17964833

    I haven’t found “tons” of peer reviewed papers concluding that carbs cause diabetes in cats. In fact I can’t find even one. As I said, it was hypothesized but not borne out. So if you look to
    the older literature, say pre- 2005, you will see mention of the idea but no data to support it. The studies looking for the connection have now been done after the idea surfaced in the literature but a connection hasn’t been found.

    From the most recent Veterinary Nutrition book published, Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012

    “Three recent population studies further refute the hypothesis that feeding dry- type extruded diets long term are the cause of diabetes in cats”

    Since I can’t find any recent publications that have definitively concluded that carbohydrate causes diabetes would you be so kind as to post the links here? 

     

  • JellyCat

    Actally, my dog eats Orijen at times and so is my cat, but the nutrition analysis is almost identical (the same is true for Evo). Nutritional analysis can be the same for all carnivores, just like BARF.

  • JellyCat

     aimee, I do agree that diet high in fat is not ideal either. But that doesn’t mean that high carb diet is better than high fat. 

  • aimee

     JellyCat,

    I didn’t mean to imply that high dietary fat directly causes diabetes.  It is reported that pancreatits is a cause of diabetes and that dietary fat is a risk factor for pancreatitis.

    I experienced this with my own dog. She ate a significant amount of cat food which had a fat level much higher than her normal diet. As a result she had significant hyperlipidemia and developed necrotizing pancreatitis. She almost died. Her blood glucoses were very high during her acute illness. She did recover and her blood glucose remained elevated. She didn’t need insulin but I’m sure if she suffered another pancreatitis episode she likely would have become diabetic.

  • aimee

     losul,

    No, this is not an argument in support of feeding dogs a carb based diet. Dogs, like people, have no requirement for carbohydrate in the diet.

    What I am saying is that it is incorrect to tell someone that feeding a significant proportion of the diet as carbohydrate will cause diabetes in their dog ( or cat for that matter).

    In regards to ease of conversion to fat, carbs are intermediate. Fat is the easiest to lay down as fat in the body because…. well it is already fat!

    Perhaps not completely accurate but I think of it as:

    Fat= Fat
    Carbs have to be converted to fat
    Protein converts to carbs which is then converted to fat

    “Dietary fat is very readily absorbed and converted more efficiently into body fat than dietary carbohydrates or protein…” Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012 eds Fascetti and Delaney

  • JellyCat

     The author of this report (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2387258/) cites multiple studies that were comparing “presence of dry food” with stimulating environments and types of carbs in some other studies. There is no mentioning of types of studies or instruments used. I cannot take such a report seriously until I evaluate a scientific merit of each reference the aurhor used. Also, the author does mention that type of a carb used in a “food” has an impact an a blood glucose. However, this is very well known even without these studies. At the end, author arrives to a conclusion that cause of diabetes is multifactorial and not to conclusion that carbs do not cause diabetes in cats.

  • JellyCat

    Actually, there is no research that demonstrates that diet rich in fats causes diabetes in dogs.
    As far as hypotheses go, I can hypothesize as well that high carbs in a diet can directly or indirectly contribute to diabetes.
    There is a causal link between carbs and DM in cats. You can easily find tons of pier reviewed papers on that.
    You included a link to letter to the editor, but this letter is only representative of someone’s biased opinion. 

  • losul

    I’ll take your word for it on most of that aimee, but I’ll say this, I think excess carbs are very easily converted to fat by the body.

    Just wondering, is this an argument for feeding dogs a carb based diet?

  • aimee

     losul,
    Certainly any source of excessive calories is a risk factor for obesity. However, to induce obesity in dogs to study insulin resistance an isocaloric exchange is made. Carbohydrate calories are decreased and fat calories are increased. When a greater proportion of the calories are fed as fat the dogs put on fat. If you search on “fat fed dog model” you should find the information on this.

    You may also want to read Romsos (1976) for more information on how dietary fat, protein and carbohydrate affects body composition. 

    Carbohydrates per say are not a risk factor for obesity. 

  • aimee

     If you read the diabetes literature you’ll see that it is dietary fat ( not carbohydrate) that may be playing a supporting role in the cause of diabetes. This is due to the mechanism of lipemia from a high fat diet  as a factor in the cause of pancreatitis.

    Additionally, there is no causal link between carbohydrate intake and feline diabetes. It has been hypothesized to be a factor but so far research hasn’t established it.

    “Based on the available evidence, it does not appear that obesity or DM represent diet-induced diseases in cats.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2387258/
     

  • losul

    I was just about to say pretty much the same thing,

    probably not directly linked, but I think it’s safe to say that excessive carbs is a risk factor for obesity, which in turn is a risk factor for pancreatitis, which can lead to the type of diabetes in a dog (similar to type 1 diabetes in a human)

  • JellyCat

    It is true that carbs may not be directly linked to canine diabetes (unlike in felines), as causes of diabetes in canines are complex and not well understood. However, inappropriate diets (which are typically high in carbs) do lead to wide range of health issues in dogs such as pancreatic problems which often result in diabetes.

  • aimee

     Hi Jellycat,

    Actually, the consumption of carbohydrate has never been linked to canine diabetes. 

  • JellyCat

    A lot of wild life had suffered and died because of the agricultural practices used to produce all this food. It is double-edged sword. The only difference is that you own dog may also suffer because of inadequate nutrition this food provides.

  • JellyCat

    It is not appropriate to feed your dogs a lot of carbs as they may not get adequate nutrition and may develop diabetes. Also, they are likely to suffer from cardiac issues on this food. This why us unreasonable dog (and other carnivores) owners prefer “arsenic tainted chicken”.
    I don’t understand your logic though, because this food is not made of organic and non-GMO grains and lentils. Canola oil in this food is one very obvious GMO product.

  • JellyCat

    You could probably feed this food safely to a rat or chinchilla. Bunnies need a lot of hay. Although you could probably give some as nutritional supplement or treats. 

  • JellyCat

     You dog may develop diabetes because this food (not surprisingly) is very high in carbs. Of course, not all dogs that eat this food will develop diabetes, but some definitely will. This is simple phathophysiology.

  • Seleniamason

    All three of my dogs are vegans they eat V-Dog. Mr. Foo –  Shih Tzu is 13 years old and has ZERO health issues–ZERO, My Pit Sweet P’s has been eating 2 cups of this food per day. His blood work is perfect. His weight is 55-58 lbs. within normal range..he hikes with me thus his energy is great–ZERO health issues. Blackie is a two year old mutt who is around 15 lbs. and he eats 1 total cup of V_Dog per day–Zero Issues. So given this info consider how many issues your dog may have?

  • LabsRawesome

     Rice has recently been shown to contain high levels of Arsenic…and speaking of GMO’s- what do you think the grains in this food are?? This food contains so many lectins. This food is not species appropriate for a dog…. you could feed it to your bunny though.

  • H66

    My dog is doing better on V-Dog than she has ever done on any of the 5 star rated products.  Her weight is more easily kept in a healthy range, her activity level has increased, her disposition is improved, and her skin problems have all but disappeared.  Meat protein, unless it is from a known quality source, cannot be trusted.  Most factory farmed animals are fed GMO corn and soybeans.  That negates it as a healthy food for us or our companion animals.

    Why on earth is vegetable pomace made of carrots, celery, beet, parsley, lettuce, watercress & spinach a controversial ingredient, while arsenic tainted chicken is applauded?

  • losul

    Peanuts don’t actually grow ON the bush, they grow underground, alot of times they are still called groundnuts or earthnuts. They aren’t a nut though, they are a legume.

    Don’t feed P.B. to your dogs folks. Being grown underground makes them particularly suceptible to the molds that produce aflatoxins, both while growing and while in storage. Virtually ALL P.B. has detectible amounts of aflatoxin. On top of that it’s loaded with sugar and fully hydrogenated oils, usually soybean and rapeseed oils.

    Peanuts and or P.B. should be on DON’T Feed lists.

  • http://thevegantruth.blogspot.com/ M. Butterflies Katz

    I disagree. It’s very ethical – no other animals had to be brutally assaulted and killed for this food, and dogs thrive on it. 

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Well, at least my point is still valid. LOL

  • Dmw

    Hi Bryan, I’m not trying to be a smarta$$, just wanted to correct you on something. Yes peanut butter does come from peanuts. But no, peanuts do not grow on trees. I live in Georgia where peanuts are one of the largest crops. We also grew them in Texas where I was raised, and I hoed peanut fields for an entire summer as a teen to earn money. Peanuts are planted underground in the fields and come up as small bush like plants with the peanuts growing on them.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Patty, 

    You are so right, it is an emotionally charged subject!
    I agree that he(Dr Mike) is very professional. From time to time 
    we all have let are emotions get the best of us. (at least I have) 

    I also agree 100% dogs have a carnivorous bias. Since feeding Christo a meat based diet his health did a 360.

    I love dogs, and one reason I like coming on this site is 
    there are a lot of people that also love dogs! I get a kick out of seeing my dog and cats tear into their food.

    Seeing them healthy and happy is the best feeling, I have not read all of the reviews but I have read lots of them. It amazes me how much work must have gone into writing them.

    I think when someone posts something silly that is a cheap shot, it really does not even make a dent, because like I said the truth of the matter is a multitude of people have and more will be helped to 
    learn how to feed their dogs and have healthier pets.

    That’s what I think Dr Mike cares about. The dogs. all of them.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    How is your dog liking peanut butter evidence of a dog being a scavenger? Scavengers have a digestive system that can get nutrients from just about any food source, and that’s simply not true about dogs.

    Dogs do not have salivary amylase, which omnivores or herbivores have to start breaking down the cell walls of plant-based foods right away. A dog’s short digestive tract is also not conducive to the longer tracts needed to process carbohydrates, like the ones humans have.

    Then there’s a dog’s jawbones and teeth. Their jawbones do not move side to side, such as the ones cows have, which are necessary to properly chew grains. And their teeth are not flat like our molars, they are conical, which also makes chewing very difficult.

    So while I don’t want to start a “carnivore vs. herbivore” battle here again, I did want to point out the silliness of your so-called evidence of dogs being scavengers.

    BTW, peanut butter comes from peanuts, which do grow on trees.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I stand by what I said.  I totally believe Dr Mike has a bias for carnivores as pets…

    I agree about the reviews.  He uses a clearly stated standard.  And there is no emotional language.  I really feel he tells it like he sees it.  He doesn’t say “Don’t buy this, it’s c**p!!”  He clearly states why he likes or dislikes particular ingredients.  He couldn’t be more professional in handling what is obviously for some reason an emotionally charged subject.

    And I’ve learned a ton from this website too.  Thanks Dr Mike, we really appreciate what you do.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Patty,

    LOL, just for fun lets say that dogs have a carnivorous bias.
    ( I really believe they do)

    We could assume Dr Mike does too. But I rather think he consumes a more human food group inclusive diet.

    I’m with you about dogs eating meat! Dr Mike is to (I think) but hey we could use the word predilection not bias

    In any case I have his back and yours! I say he not “bias” because I believe he is non subjective, in his reviews,  unlike the extemporaneous post that was not only rude but uncalled for. Not to mention subjective. (I don’t mean your post, I’m with you)

    I owe a debt of gratitude to the DFA because before 
    finding this web site I knew nada about feeding my dog, I learned a lot from all the wonderful posters and all of Dr Mike’s reviews. Now I found a great food my will eat, and he is healthy. I think that is what Dr Mike had in mind when he created this website.

  • Pattyvaughn

    John, Dr. Mike has a carnivorous bias.  No, in my post I really shouldn’t have used the term bias since it is associate with prejudice instead of considered belief, but I don’t think of the word bias that way.  Making an informed judgement toward one side is not prejudice, but I do think of it as having a bias or preference toward.  Just like I think many of us here have a bias(preference) for meat protein for our dogs, myself included.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Chris……..

    I to hope all works out for your dog. I don’t think Dr Mike is bias at all. After writing 700 or so reviews, I’d conclude it’s a labor of love. I would also venture to say his hard work and laborious efforts have helped many many people feed their beloved pets  better. Myself included.   

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi Chris

    Dr. Mike clearly states that his reviews are based on protein level in the food and animal protein above vegetable protein.  Yes, he has a bias for what many here consider a dogs natural diet, meat.  My dog is crazy for peanut butter too, but he actually likes raw liver better in a side by side taste test.  And most dogs will go for meat over vegetables if they are given the opportunity, that is a carnivorous bias.  Not to mention that dogs don’t produce cellulase, the enzyme necessary for breaking down plant cell walls.

    If you are happy feeding your dog vegan, that’s the choice you have to make, good for you.  But, if it turns out that your dog starts having health problems that are diet related, can you do the right thing and put him on a species appropriate diet? 

    I truly hope your choices work well for you and your dog.  I personally have one of the dogs that can’t handle a high carb diet.  He gets a systemic yeast infection and scratched himself raw.

  • Chris

    Wow, who’s the one that is bias here?  Seems to me that its the author of this review, NOT the dog.  Dogs do not have a “Natural carnivorous bias,” they are opportunistic and highly adaptive scavengers who will eat a broad range of food (and what we would consider non-food) items.  My dogs favorite food is peanut butter, he goes nuts for it, tell me how “natural” is that?  Where the hell in the wild will you find peanut butter?  Does it grow on trees?  I’ve never found this to be the case.  Although I find the menadione observation to be valid, if a two star review is the “best” rating that this bias author can give for a non-cruelty and non-animal abuse based product (and the author obviously does not ascribe to this lifestyle himself), than I find that to be equivalent to a 5 star review for it.