Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

See Important Recall Notice

Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction Formula Dog Food gets the Advisor’s top rating of 5 stars.

Although the Premium Edge Dog Food product line currently lists 8 dry dog foods, this review is designed to cover the Healthy Weight Reduction Formula only.

Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction formula claims to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance.

Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction Formula

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 49% | Fat = 13% | Carbs = 30%

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, peas, pea protein, egg product, potato protein, potatoes, ocean fish meal, salmon, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed meal, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, Yucca schidigera extract, l-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis44%12%NA
Dry Matter Basis49%13%30%
Calorie Weighted Basis44%29%27%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The third ingredient mentions peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fourth ingredient is pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.

Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fifth ingredient is dried egg product, a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries — from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The sixth ingredient lists potato protein, another plant-based protein booster.

The seventh ingredient is potato. Potatoes can be considered a gluten-free source of digestible carbohydrates. Yet with the exception of perhaps their caloric content, potatoes are of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The eighth ingredient is ocean fish meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate, fish meal contains almost 300% more protein than fresh fish itself.

Fish meal is typically obtained from the “clean, dried, ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish and fish cuttings” of commercial fish operations.1

Unfortunately, this particular item is anonymous. Because various fish contain different types of fats, we would have preferred to have known the source species.

We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item appears2 to be ethoxyquin-free.

The ninth ingredient is salmon. Although it is rich in omega-3 fatty acids, raw salmon contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The tenth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The eleventh ingredient is flaxseed meal… one of the best plant-based sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Flax meal is particularly rich in soluble fiber.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, chicory root is naturally rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

Next, we note the use of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction looks to be an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 49%, a fat level of 13% and estimated carbohydrates of about 30%.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 27%.

Above-average protein. Below-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the pea and potato protein, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.

Unlike most weight reduction dry dog foods (low on protein, high on carbs), this recipe is truly unique.

Bottom line?

Premium Edge Healthy Weight Reduction is a grain-free kibble using a significant amount of chicken and fish meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

A Final Word

This review is designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food. However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyzed this product, please be sure to read our article, “The Problem with Dog Food Reviews

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt consult a veterinarian for help.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

03/07/2010 Original review
10/07/2010 Review updated
04/12/2012 Last Update

  1. Association of American Feed Control Officials
  2. Per Diamond Pet Food Customer Service via email dated 7/7/2010
Dog Food Advisor IconThe Dog Food Advisor publishes independent reviews to help pet owners make better choices when shopping for dog food.


  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Bear the sick lab,
    I hear your anger and frustration. But it’s time to step up and ‘play the game.’ You can’t force your vet to watch anything. You can’t force her to read anything. The link that I gave you and the links that Shawna gave you can be printed out and handed to her. The fact that they are from the FDA, and Purina will at least get her attention.

    It’s rather like being a door to door salesman. You have to “hook” your audience… That’s why we provided the links that we did. Both Shawna and I are experienced at this kind of thing. You have a nano second to “hook” a belligerent audience. Two things are imperative: the right research, that they’ll respect, and NOT a hostile attitude. If you attack, they WILL defend and refuse to be convinced. It’s hard when you care so much. But, you have to do it, for your dog.

    So, breathe deep, and put aside your (justifiable) anger. It will get in the way and do more harm than good. Do whatever you have to to calm down and reread the responses you got on this site. Mine them for everything that you can use to benefit your dog. Remember, if you persevere, logically and calmly you can yet salvage this situation. It’s not about being right, not this time, it’s about getting through it, intact. Rather like rafting class 5 whitewater rapids. Experienced rafters know that they may not get through still in the boat, but if they get through and nobodies dies, they win. Hope this is helpful!

  • Bear the Sick Lab

    How bad is it to bring my laptop to the vet’s office and FORCE her to watch the videos?!? I would, of I wasn’t afraid of getting Bear taken away from me. This sucks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Shawna! Did I hear, ” Whooosh, snap! Whhachooow!”?? LMAO
    :-D

  • Shawna

    I too wish for an editing feature :) Cited not sited, etc

  • Shawna

    I want to point something out in the petmd article I sited… Dogs WITH renal failure are not placed on a low protein diet… If dogs that HAVE kidney failure can’t benefit from a lower protein diet then dogs without kd certainly aren’t going to benefit.. By the way — my puppy was born with kidney disease. We noticed symptoms before she was even weaned but her “official” diagnosis didn’t happen til her one year blood work.. She turned 5 years old last June and is in excellent health. She isn’t on any medications (takes extra vitamins and nutritional products (like prebiotics and probiotics etc). She has never had to see the vet for her kd EVER. AND, she has been on a HIGH protein raw diet since she was weaned.

    Also, by the way — low quality proteins, like corn gluten meal, CAN contribute to kidney disease.

  • Shawna

    Bear the sick Lab,

    I feel for you!! Vets (and other medical professionals) can be very condescending to us as patients and the guardians of patients. When one is condescending with me, I get GREAT satisfaction by rubbing it in the face — in the nicest way I can however :) ..

    If I were you and in this situation I would do this —

    Print out this page from PURINA’s website
    “Dietary Protein and Renal Function Results of multiple studies indicated that there were no adverse effects of the high protein diets.” http://www.purinavets.eu/home/research/pdf.htm?id=188

    A vet writes on the website PetMD
    “Overweight dogs, dogs with itchy, flaky skin, dogs with coarse and brittle coats, dogs with poor energy levels and resistance to infection — 95 percent of the time these dogs will be consuming diets low in animal origin tissues and high in grain-based products. Inexpensive, corn-based diets are some of the worst.

    Extra carbohydrate intake, above the immediate needs of the dog (which occurs often with grain-based diets) prompts internal enzyme factors to store that extra carbohydrate (sugar) as fat.

    Give that same dog extra protein and it is excreted through the kidneys and NOT stored as fat. Knowing this, what do you think would make a better “weight loss diet” for a dog … one with grain as the main ingredient or one with a protein-rich meat source as the main ingredient?

    Ahhhhhh … I know what you’re thinking! Too much protein! Kidney damage! Well, guess what? The very early research that pointed a finger at protein as being a cause of kidney failure in dogs wasn’t even done on dogs! It was done on rats fed unnatural diets for a rodent — diets high in protein. (Were we tinkering with Nature during these “tests”?) Rats have difficulty excreting excess protein in their diets because they are essentially plant eaters, not meat eaters.

    Dogs are quite able to tolerate diets with protein levels higher than 30 percent on a dry weight basis. Dogs are meat eaters; that’s how Nature made them! Rats are not. So some of the early research on rats was assumed to be true for dogs … and the myth of “too much protein in a dog’s diet causes kidney damage” was started. And just like any seemingly valid rumor or assertion, it derived a life of its own and is only recently being accepted as untrue.

    Here is just one of many references that recently have appeared asserting the lack of data indicating that reducing the protein level in a food helps to protect the kidneys:

    “…restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function. Considering these (research) findings, the authors do not recommend reduction of dietary protein in dogs with renal disease or reduced renal function in order to achieve renoprotective effects.”
    -Kirk’s Veterinary Therapy XIII, Small Animal Practice, page 861, written by Finco, Brown, Barsanti and Bartges
    http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_protein_in_the_diet

    From Iams website
    “Do your foods have too much protein?
    No. Some people believe that protein in dog foods beyond a certain level can cause kidney damage. No scientific research conducted to date indicates that protein is in any way involved in the development of kidney disease.” http://www.iams.com/pet-health/dog-article/pet-food-ingredient-article#qa9

    Purina Fit and Trim has “meat and bone meal” and “animal fat” in it. Why not print out the below FDA article (it doesn’t say there are dead cats and dogs but it does say there is traces of pentobarbitol (the euthanasia drug) in these two ingredients.
    http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/CVM/CVMFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm129134.htm

    This article from the US Fish and Wildlife Service states that pentobarbitol does NOT break down in the rendering process and SHOULD NOT be fed to animals. http://cpharm.vetmed.vt.edu/USFWS/USFWSFPentobarbFactSheet.pdf

    Mike S and I both linked to a research paper proving that high protein diets create better weight loss — one of the diets fed was 54% protein..

    I’m not quite sure how your vet and co-owner could dispute these facts taken from legitimate websites???

    We here on DFA can help you with more factual and reliable informtion if you want it!! Your vet needs some serious educating and a bit of an attitude check!!! Just my opinion though ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Hi Bear the Sick Lab,
    Here’s the link:

    http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/FDAVeterinarianNewsletter/ucm093929.htm

    Notice that it’s an FDA DOCUMENT, complete with letter head. It’s states two things: there is phenobarbitol in the pet food, and phenobarbitol is used to euthanize dogs, cats, and horses.

    There are many YouTube videos, however they are very graphic. There also newsletters and blogs from vets and animal nutritionists all over the Internet. I also reviewed several news videos about it, on YouTube, so you are right. For what it’s worth.

    Now, I know you’re struggling with this decision, and the pressure. It’s hard to go against the mainstream. I have full blown lymphoma, oncologists would radiate and chemo the heck out of me! But I refuse to get the corresponding tests, to give them he license to force me. I have family members who refuse to talk to me if I “just want to die.” I don’t which is why I won’t do conventional treatment. But that’s a whole ‘mother story. I just shared so you’d know I understand.

    Here’s the bottom line. IT’S YOUR DOG NOW. It’s not the vets or the past owners. It’s yours. Thank them politely for their opinion. Tell Them you will take their opinion under advisement. Don’t tell them what you plan to feed. Get the surgery, find a holistic vet and one that supports you and works with you and get that dog recovered. :-)

    You don’t have to ask their permission. It’s up to you. You’re obviously not stupid, or a sheep. You think and research. That’s wonderful. You like to arm yourself with knowledge so you can make an informed decision. Your dog can’t have a better human than that! There are some great books out there, that I’m sure many members on this site can recommend. Let us know if you want them. ;-)

  • Bear the Sick Lab

    Thank you all for contributing! It saddened me that I was belittled by the pros on my recent research (much from this site) and told how wrong I am. I was told to stop this food and go back on Purina Fit & Trim, which in my opinion is just crap. The vet, on the other hand, basically did a “shame on you” lecture for believing anything I’ve learned from the Internet. I didn’t try to link the ACL tear with this food, I was merely stating that the vet is now 100% involved with the food he’s on. Here’s the difficult part of my situation… I am not the original owner of the dog and I would not be paying for the surgery, even though the dog has lived with my family and me for 3 yrs now. I am getting ganged up on by the other parties in this situation (other owner and the professionals) and made to feel foolish for believing things I’ve learned. Someone is just trying to sell me something they say. I don’t know what to do and it stinks. I have been told this food is highly inappropriate for my dog and that he should be on Fit and Trim, and that there have been studies regarding labs and the benefits of Purina. THERE ARE NO QUALITY INGREDIENTS IN THAT FOOD UNTIL YOU GET HALF WAY DOWN THE INGREDIENT LIST! I’m in a no win situation. I asked the vet about Purina being one of the companies that was found to have cat/dog in it years ago and she laughed at me insisting no way. I remember Purina being on the news about this!

    I’m such a frustrated dog-parent. I mean no offense to my, I mean the, vet. I think you’re wrong. You didn’t even hear me out.

  • melissa

    Mike P-

    Exercise is very important. Lack of it not only causes weight gain, but can result in emotional/behavioral issues for the dog-you are completely accurate.

    Unfortunately, even most of the food calculators leave it, without description, up to the owners to determine activity level. Without guidelines to go by, its often difficult for owners to determine “less active” “normal” or “highly active “resulting in over feeding.

  • Mike P

    Mike S- I’m so glad you mentioned “sedentary lifestyle” of some dogs. I know this is a nutrition site but exercise is so important.What a nice long walk does for a dog is so important. Not only physical but emotional well being as well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Oops, lost a word. Should have said “just meat, fat,…etc.

    Mike, I don’t know about others, it I sure could use an edit option! Sorry all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    I guess I should add that I was over on the mercola site blogging under the paleo diet, (no starchy carbs, meats, fat, veggies, seeds,nuts, and fruits) where people were reporting 30-146 lb. weight loss, kept off, reduced cholesterol, healthy BUN & creatinin levels as well as improved blood work all around, more energy, feeling of well being, and even remediation of several other health conditions.

    If it works for people, imagine what it can do for dogs…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Wow! Tremendous dialog! Sorry I missed it! Great discussion. I have read Mary Enig, and several others on saturated fat, and am just reading Steve Brown’s book. I’m in agreement with Shawna’s summery. I also with what Aimee brought up about over feeding. Too many pet owners leave food out free choice, and even refill the bowl ‘on demand.’ My in-laws had a cat like that…. Wow! But it is prevalent. Love the discussions here!

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Melissa… I would agree. The cause of canine obesity is (for whatever reason) primarily overfeeding. And that problem is at least compounded by feeding diets low in QUALITY meat-based protein, moderate in fat and low in carbs.

    And that combined with the (rarely mentioned) sedentary lifestyle of our companion animals.

  • Shawna

    :) — yes Mike, that is what I strive for and suggest to others.. And I do agree, it is harder to find..

    However, it’s pretty easy to purchase a higher protein diet and add small amounts of lean meats to increase the overall protein while lowering both the fat and carb content. One half of a raw chicken breast, as an example, per nutrition data has 27 grams of protein and only 1 gram of fat. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/701/2

    I also think that if we as customers start demanding diet closer to ancestral we will get them. There’s only so much a kibble can do but there are many now that strive for the ideal. Evo Weight Mangement is one http://www.naturapet.com/products/1611

  • aimee

    Shawna,
    I didn’t mean to imply dogs need a low fat diet.. a more moderate fat is ok by me along with appropriate portion control. I do favor a higher protein to fat ratio for the average house dog. JMO but with todays couch potato dogs who are taking in only close to RER I wonder if we may be inadvertently shortchanging protein in these animals. For weight loss I want that ratio even higher.

    I’m pretty carb neutral. The higher carbs in commercial diets don’t bother me too much.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Oops, Shawna. Forgive me. My last comment posted before I read yours. As you’ve mentioned previously, you’re also a Steve Brown fan. I use his model of a dog’s natural ancestral diet as my personal gold standard.

    It’s hard to find many commercial products that mimic this historical design.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    I’m hearing you, Aimee. And what you describe sounds like something closer to a dog’s natural ancestral diet — high protein, moderate (quality) fat and low carbs. Am I understanding this correctly?

  • Shawna

    I agree with Aimee on high fat.. Protein should account for the largest portion of calories. But I also disagree with the low fat theory. High protein, “moderate” amounts of high quality species appropriate fat, low carb.

  • aimee

    I think Melissa hit the head on the nail. The primary problems contributing to obesity are overfeeding, coupled with inactivity and improper body image.

    In one study the dogs whose owners watched them eat were more likely to be overweight. Some people get pleasure from seeing the dog eat and so they feed them and feed them and feed them: )

    The study you linked to Mike is the one we are discussing. But I think the disservice was in the title. These diets were all low fat and the test diets were only 8 and 9 percent fat. A better title in my opinion would have been “Feeding more calories as protein vs carbohydrates when feeding a low fat diet enhances weight loss in the dog”

    If someone only reads the title as it is written they may think a diet of say 47 percent protein, 43 percent fat is a great diet food because it is high protein and low carb. But on an energy basis it isn’t, the benefit of high protein has been lost. To borrow from Shawna, the protein has been misplaced by the fat.

    The problem in my opinion with high fat diets is that they displace protein and make the food calorically dense. Since so many people feed by the “this amount looks right” method it is easy to overfeed the dog.

  • Shawna

    Calorie restriction without changing the diet leads to yoyo dieting. Once the weight is off — the calories have to be added back in to prevent further weight loss. If those same calories are causing insulin spikes — the weight goes right back on and sometimes, many people find, even more weight is gained.

  • Shawna

    Huffington post — watch the video

    “Insulin” makes you fat not fat.

    “Let me repeat that.

    Dietary fat is not a major determinant of body fat.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/why-eating-a-low-fat-diet_b_634011.html

  • Shawna

    Mary Enig one of the leading experts in fats and member of Weston Price Foundation says this about saturated fats.

    “How much total saturated do we need? During the 1970s, researchers from Canada found that animals fed rapeseed oil and canola oil developed heart lesions. This problem was corrected when they added saturated fat to the animals diets. On the basis of this and other research, they ultimately determined that the diet should contain at least 25 percent of fat as saturated fat. Among the food fats that they tested, the one found to have the best proportion of saturated fat was lard, the very fat we are told to avoid under all circumstances!” http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/importance-of-saturated-fats-for-biological-functions

    Fats (food) is not as healthful now as it was in past years because we feed our food corn, M & Ms, soy etc. Not because of the food (meat/fat) itself.

    Grass finished beef, 1 ounce, has only 5 grams of fat and only 1 of those is saturated fat.

    Feedlot finished (raised on grass most its life) beef 85% lean, 1 ounce, has 4 grams of fat but 2 of those are saturated. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6198/2

  • Shawna

    By increasing protein (animal protein) you automatically increase fat (to a certain degree). The calories have to come from somewhere. There is a change of thinking beginning to happen right now.

    From Harvard University
    “Introduction
    “Eat a low-fat, low-cholesterol diet” has been the mantra for healthful eating for decades. Touted as a way to lose weight and prevent or control heart disease and other chronic conditions, millions of people have followed (or, more likely, have tried to follow) this advice. Seeing a tremendous marketing opportunity, food companies re-engineered thousands of foods to be lower in fat or fat free. The low-fat approach to eating may have made a difference for the occasional individual, but as a nation it hasn’t helped us control weight or become healthier. In the 1960s, fats and oils supplied Americans with about 45 percent of their calories; (1) about 13 percent of us were obese and under 1 percent had type 2 diabetes, a serious weight-related condition. (2, 3) Today, Americans take in less fat, getting about 33 percent of calories from fats and oils; (1) yet 34 percent of us are obese and 8 percent have diabetes, most with type 2 diabetes. (4, 5)

    Why hasn’t cutting fat from the diet paid off as expected? Detailed research—much of it done at Harvard—shows that the total amount of fat in the diet isn’t really linked with weight or disease. (6-9) What really matters is the type of fat in the diet.”
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-full-story/

    If this is true for humans imagine the implications for dogs — who evolved eating, if Steve Brown is correct, 44% of their diet from fats (including an ample amount of saturated fat).

  • melissa

    Mike S-

    All interesting points to ponder. In my opinion the number one cause is owners overfeeding their dogs coupled with an inaccurate “vision” of what a healthy dog looks like.

    Our society as a whole has gotten heavier and heavier over the years, and I tend to believe that as humans, we have distorted what a proper “body condition” should be for dogs. A dog should have a distinct “tuck up” or waist, without ribs/hip bones showing. Ribs should be able to be felt with slight pressure, but not seen. However, many people see a dog with a waist and think “Omg, that poor dog is skinny” As long as the owner’s vision is distorted, it is not going to make a difference WHAT the food composition is.

    I have fed all types of foods over the years, and with a few exceptions of certain dogs getting too thin on a particular type or brand, I have yet to have a dog become obese. This I believe is simply due to the uniqueness of each dog, and some foods just do not “agree” with them.

    Next time you see a person walking a watermelon with legs, stop and gush over them, telling the owner how cute and adorable the dog is..Then, ask what the dog eats and how much-be sure to comment how shiny the coat is, and ask if they feed any “special” treats-Next thing you know, you will be hearing he/she eats only one cup of x brand. Oh, and they credit the shiny coat to the 20 biscuits and leftover dinner scraps that they feed the dog. The point not being that treats or table scraps are inherently bad, but that the owner has no concept of exactly how many calories that dog is consuming-and certainly have no idea of how to properly categorize its activity level(what is high energy to me, may be lethargic to you!)

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Aimee… I believe I found Shawna’s well-argued comment posted in the Dog Food Calculator article. The link is entitled, “High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs”.

    Is that the one you’re talking about? (It’s certainly possible I’ve found the wrong one ;) )

    If it is (and unless I’m misunderstanding its findings), the study appears to support not just high protein but also low carbohydrate content for canine weight loss.

    Yet the “moderate-fat” study you mentioned in your comment here also makes a good case that excessive dietary fat is the culprit.

    I’m puzzled. Which is it? Excessive fat? Excessive carbs? Or excessive calories?

    As you know, I’ve always suspected today’s carbohydrate heavy (low protein) kibbles to be an important “player” in canine obesity.

    It would just seem logical (to me, at least) that the primary cause for canine obesity would be excessive total dietary calories (overfeeding) exacerbated by a diet too low in protein.

    And thus, by scientific and mathematical certainty, excessive in either fat or carbs.

    So, which is it? Are today’s commercial dog foods too high in carbs? Too high in fats? Or are they simply too low in protein?

    Or have today’s devotees of nutritionism found the answer by “switching out” meat for corn meal and canola oil?

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    When reading on insulin resistance I came across something called the “moderate fat fed dog model” in which body composistion is shifted to a higher proportion of fat through an isocaloric diet with a greater proportion of calories fed as fat. The overall dog’s weight didn’t change.

    In this study that model is explained. A mere 8 percent increase in the percentage of calories fed as fat ( no increase in total calories fed) resulted in a twofold increase in body fat.
    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/10/2453.long
    But I remembered the study incorrectly as those calories were substituted out from both carb and protein.

    I believe I also came across a reference to a weight loss study in which protein was held the same and fat was switched out for carb. I’ll try to find it for you. Maybe I’m not remembering that one right either… we’ll see ! : )

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    As I read this study there was a fifteen percent caloric restriction done during the weight loss phase and the authors concluded that in the high protein group a further weight loss was realized without having to restrict to a greater degree.

    The findings suggest that the dog may lose weight via shifiting to a high protein diet even though calories remain the same. (Through increased thermogeneisis??) But I would think this effect would be too small for effective weight loss if the dog has significant weight to lose and caloric restriction would still be needed at some point.

    I also wonder what the effect would be if all the test diets were higher in fat. The diets ranged from 8 to 11 percent fat( all fairly low) with the lower fat diets being the higher protein test diets, just a wee bit of a confounding variable.

    Mike.. I do think caloric restriction is still needed for effective weight loss but do think this was a great research find on Shawna’s part to support the use of high protein in a weight loss food.

  • Shawna

    In the research paper it stated that calorie restriction was not required when lowering the carbs and uping the protein.

    However, I do agree that overfeeding of any food can cause weight gain…

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Aimee and Shawna… Would you not also agree that reduced caloric intake (calorie restriction) would be the primary dietary objective for weight loss. I’ve never met an overweight dog that wouldn’t benefit from being fed less.

  • Shawna

    aimee,

    Yes, absolutely — if you can easily find it I would like that.. In the mean time — switching carb to fat (calorie for calorie) caused and increase in fat? WOW.. I could see it if gram for gram since fats have over double the calories per gram — but calorie for calorie!!! In all honesty, that kinda surprises me.. Not the first time I’ve been surprised though :)

    I’m not a low fat follower but because of the higher calories in fat it does have to be watched.. Fat can displace protein just as easily as carbs!!! Most raw commercial diets are too high in fat!! A sneaky way to make their food cost less as fed…

    I’m a Steve Brown follower — 49% of calories from protein and 44% fat — still high in fat but not as high as protein. However in the numbers, fat would be less then half the protein due to the higher calorie count gram for gram. I feed lower fat meats like buffalo and venison but then add sardines and eggs..

    Thanks aimee :) !!!

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    I think I forgot to thank you for posting that great reference on the other thread. I added it to my collection!

    In a reference I cited previously (I can find it again if you want it) holding protein level and switching out carb calories for fat calories results in increased body fat.

    And so now to add to the data a good reference that with a low fat diet switching out carbs for protein is also advisable.

    I personally favor a high protein low fat diets for weight loss similar to the test diet in the reference you turned me on to.

  • Shawna

    Bear the sick lab,

    I’m soooo sorry for you and your poor boy. However, your vet is very very wrong!!! It disturbs me how wrong she really is in fact.

    Like Toxed herself, I have a dog that was born with kidney disease. She has been on a high protein diet (raw diet) since she was weaned. She just turned 5 this year in June. HOWEVER — chronic dehydration (from too little water on a kibble diet) and poor quality proteins can contribute to kd in a dog that is suseptible.. It is VERY well known now that protein does not cause kd.

    Dr. Foster and Smith (vets seen on Animal Planet)
    “Does high protein cause kidney disease?
    No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets.” http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459#answer_7

    I have a ton more reputable sites like Drs Foster and Smith that agree on protein not causing KD.

    Liver disease — protein doesn’t cause liver disease. Protein needs restricted in a dog with a severely compromised liver if encephalitis is resent (say a liver shunt). But it does not cause. Fructose (sugar) as found in rice DOES cause liver disease however. I have many reputable sites stating this too. Including human doctor – Dr. Oz.

    Carbs cause weight gain — protein causes muscle gain. I posted this on one of the weighloss articles here on DFA.
    “The paper is titled “High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs”

    A quote from the “Discussion” at the end of the paper. “Changing the macronutrient profile of a canine weight-loss diet from a high-carbohydrate level to one primarily based on protein can promote greater weight loss without further reductions in caloric intake. This weight loss is driven primarily from an increased loss of fat mass while maintaining lean muscle mass.” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

    Maybe you should print these articles out and educate your vet..??

  • aimee

    To Bear the Sick Lab,

    My heart goes out for your guy. I’ve gone through my share of ACL repairs as unfortunately it is not uncommon in this breed.

    I did a quick search and therapeutic diets sold through veterinary offices specific for weight loss do have protein levels similar to this food: Purina OM canned and Royal Canin high protein calorie control canned.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    P.S.S.

    Oops my mistake, forget Pitcairn…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    P.S. I read your above post about the licking and itching. Sounds like detox to me. We, (mammals) detox through elimination: urine, feces, sweating. Itching skin, and licking paws is often a sign of detoxing through the skin… Dogs sweat mostly through their paws. Many times our bodies will store the toxins in tissue until they have the resources to get them eliminated with less damage. This food has a lot of beneficial nutrients. Sounds like it was helping your dog eliminate toxins. In the TI (toxically injured) world we call this Herksheimer’s Reactions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Bear the Sick lab,

    I’m so sorry that happened to bear. It is horrible when our pets have to go through painful things that they can’t understand. However, I think your vet is incorrect.

    High protein diets don’t cause those kinds of injuries, not torn ligaments. And despite a lot of speculation to the contrary, I don’t think high protein causes kidney or liver disease either. Yes, we’ll see protenuria in the urine, but that is a symptom of something else going on… You see, I have kidney disease and a severely damaged liver… My EI doctor and I have me on an extremely high protein diet, as part of my treatment.

    Here’s a couple of other facts for you to mull over: many pharmaceuticals cause rupturing or tearing of major muscles and ligaments. My husband tore his ACL while playing Bball with the kids. He’d taken Cipro, the antibiotic. (flufloxiflourine, spelling?) within the previous 3 years. Later a recall came out saying that they were finding these side effects as much as 10 years later! So, I don’t think it’s your diet.

    Many very savvy vets feel a specie specific ancestral diet (high in animal protein) is the most beneficial diet for your dog. Check these guys out: Billinghurst, Lonsdale, Pitcairn. You can also check out Dr. Becker on healthypet.mercola.com

    Now Mike Sageman has done a lot of research into pet nutrition. Many vets don’t. Its not covered extensively in vet school. Mike wouldn’t have given it a 5 star rating if it was outside the healthy limit of protein for canines…( Canines thrive on protein.) It would also have to be optimally balanced for fats and nutrients. This really is a very well researched site!

    So, while you love Bear, and changing diet may have been the most recent recognizable change, other environmental factors most probably caused the ruptured ligament. You didn’t pick a poor quality food. It is in fact a very healthy one full of beneficial nutrients. That injury wasn’t your fault! It wasn’t caused by changing to this food.

  • Bear the Sick Lab

    I thought this food was great. Then my dog snapped his ACL and my vet yelled at me for switching to this food because all the protein can cause liver and kidney damage. She then stated that the ONLY dogs that should be eating this much protein are working dogs and rescue dogs that hike up and down the mountains. Suffice it to say, overweight dogs are most likely not rescue or working dogs. My overweight lab needs $3500 surgery with the ACL snap and he wasn’t losing weight on this food. She has asked me to switch it pronto.

    What she suggested to feed him is for another convo. Ugh.

  • sandy

    Just throwing it out there…the vet suggested 2-5% weight reduction per month.

  • sandy

    Pat,

    There are other numerous choices. You don’t necessarily need “weight reduction” food and there are foods that are not that high in protein. Just restrict the calories and exercise. He can also lose the weight on grain free moderate to high protein whether it’s “weight management” type food or non-weight management. The goal is to give him good quality proteins and try to reduce the carbs as much as you are comfortable with. For small breeds, I have used (and still use) Amicus (30%), Instinct, Brothers, Nutrisca (34%). There is also a Blue Buffalo Wilderness Healthy Weight and Blue Buffalo Wilderness Small Breed. I have had many dogs lose weight on non-diet grain free/moderate to high protein foods. I just measure their serving with a real measuring scoop and restrict treats and go walking.