Great Life Grain Free (Dry)

Looks like they changed their packaging (grainfree ones) - not sure on the ingredients that were discussed on earlier posts.  

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/category_s/79.htm

Addie – I looked up the chicken meal description on the brand website and I posted that information on the brand thread, Castor & Pollux, as a reference for others who may want to know.

Thank you Addie, That could be an option if I wanted to settle for the main ingredient, chicken meal, being non-organic. Since chicken meal isn’t organic, I wonder what is the source of the chicken for the chicken meal. Do you know?

OK. Organic and raw it is! Yes I will skip the organic kibbles that are massive carbs. I found a rancher who has grass-fed/finished cattle, without hormones or antibiotics, where I can buy meaty soup bones and organs. He is asking his processer about tripe for me.  He knows a chicken and pig source that raise and feed their animals using clean practices. My dog already gets raw eggs from a neighborhood hen source.
I might get organic Paw Naturaw as a backup, but from the comments, they seem like they might be full of themselves and not truthful about their food sources and practices. But they are USDA organic, so that should mean something, if anything means anything anymore.

i8ok,
Yes, that is the gruesome reality. We are being poisoned, everyday. There are unfortunately no clean places left. UCLA Davis Air Quality Research Station reports that “on any given day in Los Angeles, 1/3 of the air pollutants can be traced to China.” & “Anything dispersed into the air circumnavigates the globe in 3 weeks.” It’s an even greater concern for our pets, as they have 2.4 times our body burden of toxins. Check this out. http://ewg.org/reports/pets

Good luck with your search for safer dog food. I feed mine mostly raw; it is organic and grass fed meat. It is also very expensive if you don’t raise your own. The cost of ingredients makes it prohibitive to produce an animal protein based, specie appropriate pre-made dog food.

Hi Linda,

I posted this in the Great Life dry reveiw

There is a lot of controversy on Great Life right now.
The bags of vet preferred in stores say venison on the label and not venison meal. The oil you mentioned is also missing from the label. They have a hard time keeping their labels accurate. With so many quality foods out there I would stay away from Great Life!

Richard, I thank you for your explanation of the different meat sources and different cooking temperatures. Your description of the terrible meat used in pet food is truly terrible. And FDA allows diseased and euthanized animals to be used in pet food?
I am also wondering about the good USDA meat you describe. What about all the chemicals used in farming these days. Hormones, steroids, and antibiotics. These are in the USDA good meat. Even in our grocery store meat. Does high temperature cooking kill these chemicals, do you know?

Would you review the new Vet Preferred Lines? I can’t link to the exact forumulas.

http://greatlifedogfood.com/

Ingredients
Pork Meal, Yams, Pumpkin, Sweet Potato, Blueberries, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Squash, Kale, Papaya, Chia, Inulin , Probiotics (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product…

and

Ingredients
Venison Meal, Yams, Freeze Dried Sweet Potato, Freeze Dried Pumpkin, Blueberries, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Squash, Kale, Freeze Dried Papaya, Cranberries, Freeze Dried Chia, Parsley, Inulin, Enzymes: (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase…

Richard, I thank you for this information you posted 3 days ago. I am still studying it. My visits to this site are irregular, so a response may not be immediate.

Hi Toxed,

You said: “You seem to be reiterating one point: that Great Life lied on their label.

I think you’ve made your point, and driven it into the ground. Let it go. Your job is done….”

Richard Darlington has made literally hundreds of posts here at DFA that say in one way or another that brothers complete is a good dog food.

Have you or anyone else here who has criticized me ever said hey Richard, you seem to be reiterating one point: that brothers complete is a good dog food.

I think you’ve made your point, and driven it into the ground. Let it go. Your job is done….?

I think it is equally important that the people who come here know that a certain dog food company lies on their labels as it is for them to know that a certain dog food company makes a good food.

Thank you.
Jack Jones

Jack,
As a teacher, the #1 thing that they taught us was, “Reading is a meaning getting process.” If you aren’t discerning the meaning that was intended, you aren’t really reading. You’re fantasizing. You’re making stuff up.

You didn’t even respond to what I wrote, you launched on something out of your own context that I didn’t even imply.

Now, I’ll admit, I mess up on writing, often enough, but unfortunately for you, I didn’t this time. Richard is right; you are representing yourself very badly here. You are presenting yourself foolishly and like an argumentative troll. Now, you have a choice, you can apologize to those you’ve offended and be more civil, or you can end up banned. You choose.

Jack ~~ Again, you are absolutely incorrect..  Lets take Sojo’s dehydrated dog food as compared to Honest Kitchen dehydrated dog food.  Both use whole meats, both use grains, both use vegetables etc etc etc.  BUT, Sojos can not claim they are human grade and Honest Kitchen can.  Why — because honest kitchen manufactures their foods in a human facility and Sojos doesn’t…  Does that make the quality of ingredients in Sojos less nutritious then Honest Kitchen — Nope.

Meals are not human grade because they they are processed via rendering NOT because they are low quality..  You simply need to do more research on the matter.

Nutritionist and raw feeder Mary Straus has a list of dog foods on her site.  Although there are only two dogs foods that can label themselves human grade (because of where they are processed) MANY companies (and many that use named meals) use meats that originate from human grade meats.

Here’s some that use meals that are also human grade.

Acana
Merrick
Nature’s Variety
Orijen
Wellness
and many many others
http://www.dogaware.com/diet/dryfood.html

By the way, there is nothing preventing named whole meat from being sourced from the bone hole..  A named whole meat in no way guarantees a human grade quality meat.

Hi Mike,

You wrote:

“Frankly, Jack, I think you’re here simply because you like to argue.”

Maybe it is you who likes to argue, Mike.

I do not dispute that AAFCO cannot make a pet food manufacturer follow certain guidelines.

AAFCO sets the definitions for ingredients on a pet food label and most pet food manufacturers voluntarily follow AAFCO’s guidelines.

You wrote:

“When Richard Darlington (one of the most respected and liked members on
this forum) made an intelligent case for using named meat meals in a
kibble, you tried to discredit his statement by claiming he’s
automatically guilty of bias because he happens to be as a pet food
manufacturer.”

What I said was:

“Richard Darlington is a manufacturer of a pet food that uses only meat
meals and no fresh meat. Richard has a vested interest in convincing
people that meat meals are not that bad.”

I 100% stick by this statement.

You wrote:

“Previously, you’ve accused me of “promoting” Great Life (and later, all
similar dog foods) simply because I use the phrase “enthusiastically
recommended” in closing every one of my 5-star reviews.”

Yes I believe that saying you enthusiastically recommend a product is promoting it. What does it matter if you use it as closing for all your 5 star reviews?  

You said:

“So, if you don’t believe in star ratings – and you think words like
“recommended” are promotional and shouldn’t be used in a review – then
why are you here?”

I do believe in star ratings. Where did I ever say I don’t believe in star ratings and where did I ever say that recommended shouldn’t be used in a review. I said that by enthusiastically recommending a food you are promoting it and I stick by that.

There are dog foods that I would enthusiastically recommend and I have no problem in admitting that by enthusiastically recommending a food I would be promoting it.

Please Mike, Let us just agree to disagree!

Thank you,
Jack Jones

Jack Jones,

DFA is a valuable and FREE resource that is available to help us make an informed decision. However you are determined to argue and and find fault with Mike’s review. The criteria Mike uses is clear – and even more important consistent. People like you tend to ruin good things for all. You had a good point, too bad you chose to deliver it in such a poor manner.

Jack Jones,

I have already explained to you that “AAFCO does not regulate product labeling. That regulatory task is a function of the US Food and Drug Administration. AAFCO doesn’t have the legal authority to enforce a change to any label.”

That’s an indisputable fact.

Yet still you come here and go to great lengths to prove me wrong.

You’ve even picked snippets of text and used them to quote me out of context in an attempt to negate the truth and prove that AAFCO does have regulatory authority.

When Richard Darlington (one of the most respected and liked members on this forum) made an intelligent case for using named meat meals in a kibble, you tried to discredit his statement by claiming he’s automatically guilty of bias because he happens to be as a pet food manufacturer.

Previously, you’ve accused me of “promoting” Great Life (and later, all similar dog foods) simply because I use the phrase “enthusiastically recommended” in closing every one of my 5-star reviews.

Hey, come on, Jack. This is a review site. Like Amazon. Like Yahoo Movies. Folks visit these kinds of websites to get the author’s opinion. And his recommendations.

So, if you don’t believe in star ratings – and you think words like “recommended” are promotional and shouldn’t be used in a review – then why are you here?

Frankly, Jack, I think you’re here simply because you like to argue.

OK, already. You’ve successfully exposed Great Life for mislabeling an ingredient. You’ve had your say. And you’ve gotten what you wanted. Now, please put it to rest.

Jack,

You said, “Meat meals are cheaper than meat, and that’s why pet food companies use meat meals.”

That’s not completely true… Muscle meat does not have a complete nutrient profile. Ligature, bone marrow, bones, viscera, all contribute to a complete and optimal nutrient profile in the canine ancestral diet. So quality of ingredients in the meal is important. There needs to be a balanced ratio in the meal, and the whole product. If you just fed your dog “prime cuts” of muscle meat, your dog would develop diseases due to nutritional deficiencies.

Just as there are more ethical people in your trade, there are more ethical people in dog food manufacturing. Richard isn’t the enemy. He isn’t hiding or denying. Much of what you just attacked him over, has been cited by many other people, multiple times on this website. So, he’s telling you the truth. There’s a difference between meals used by manufacturers. Some use the 4Ds, some source from higher quality… Personally, I’m going to choose to use a kibble that is sourced from higher quality,.. And I’m glad to know that Richard knows the difference and forthrightly advocates it.

You seem to be reiterating one point: that Great Life lied on their label.

I think you’ve made your point, and driven it into the ground. Let it go. Your job is done…. Unless, you just like to argue….?

Than you Shawna

Thank you iBok,

I bought Great Life because it was supposed to be made using fresh meat and not rendered meat meals. My problem with Great Life was that they lied on their labels.

Richard Darlington wrote:

“The theoretical advantage of adding “raw” meat to the batch versus “meat meal” is that the meat meal has already been cooked once and will now be cooked again so there is potentially more heat damage to amino acids than with the raw, which will only be heated once.”

“By law the meat  from these sources is not allowed to be defined as “human grade” once it is turned into a meat meal for dog food – ostensibly because that might actually help you as a consumer to determine a difference between that and the very poor quality meat sources, and that would not be good for the large corporations or dog food manufacturers that don’t want you to be able to tell the difference.”

By law meat meals are never fit for human consumption because meat meals are of too low a quality, period. Otherwise the USDA would say that meat meals of a certain quality are allowed and bad meat meals aren’t.

Meat meals are cheaper than meat and that is why pet food companies use meat meals. You can reach a high protein level much cheaper using meat meals than using fresh meat.

Richard Darlington is a manufacturer of a pet food that uses only meat meals and no fresh meat. Richard has a vested interest in convincing people that meat meals are not that bad.

Thank you,
Jack Jones

i8ok

There is actuality a huge difference in “meat meals” being used in the dog food industry.

First, the source of meat for the “meat meal” can range from terrible (rendering plants that use diseased, dying, or euthanized animals) to good (meat sourced from USDA inspected plants that are making food for human consumption). The higher the quality of the meat the greater is its ioavailability to the dog and the fewer the waste products created so less strain on the liver.

By law the meat  from these sources is not allowed to be defined as “human grade” once it is turned into a meat meal for dog food – ostensibly because that might actually help you as a consumer to determine a difference between that and the very poor quality meat sources, and that would not be good for the large corporations or dog food manufacturers that don’t want you to be able to tell the difference.

Secondly, how the meat is processed can make a huge difference. The temperatures it is cooked at and how long it is cooked at those temperatures has a big influence on damage to some of the amino acids in the protein. 

The theoretical advantage of adding “raw” meat to the batch versus “meat meal” is that the meat meal has already been cooked once and will now be cooked again so there is potentially more heat damage to amino acids than with the raw, which will only be heated once. However, as was pointed out in other posts, if the cooking/extrusion process of the food the “raw” is added to uses higher and longer temperatures then any potential advantage would be negated and amino acid damage could actually even be worse than the other meal that is cooked twice.

So at one extreme you have dying, diseased, euthanized animals or questionable meat sources overcooked at extremely high temperatures (up to 375 degrees F) for long periods of time (hours) at questionable rendering plants turned into a meat meal that is then sold to a manufacturer who knows where it came from, so they generally overcook it again in the cooking/extrusion process to be certain any pathogens are killed. Then, because time is money, they dry it at extreme temperatures (again up to 375 degrees F) which again burns and compromises the amino acid profile.

On the other end of the spectrum you have a company that buys their meat from USDA inspected plants that process meat for human consumption. The meat is cooked at fairly low temperatures (180 to 194 degrees F) just long enough to remove the fat and water and is then sold to a high quality plant as a named “meat meal”.

This high quality meat meal is then added to a batch of other high quality ingredients, cooked at low temperatures again (180 to 194 degrees F) for only 13 to 15 minutes then extruded for only 4 to 5 minutes at about 180 to 185 degrees F) and then cooled slowly so that the core temperature of the kibble never goes above about 180 to 194 degrees F) – all this to minimize amino acid damage as much as possible.

Then, the manufacturer of the high quality kibble could add some amino acids back into the kibble (to make up for the minimal amounts that were destroyed in the cooking process) by spraying them on the kibble after cooling.

Finally, digestive enzymes, prebiotics, and probiotics could also be sprayed on the kibble to help digestion and strengthen the entire digestive tract as well as help maintain the health of the colon (and therefore the immune system) by maintaing a strong healthy beneficial bacterial colony there.

There are other considerations like nutrients being balanced to each other but that’s another topic for another time.