Evolution Diet Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★☆☆☆

Evolution Diet Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The Evolution Diet product line includes two dry dog foods, each claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Evolution Diet Gourmet Pasta Veggie Burger
  • Evolution Diet Gourmet Fondue Veggie Cheese Burger

Evolution Diet Gourmet Pasta Veggie Burger was selected to represent both products in the line for this review.

Evolution Diet Gourmet Pasta Veggie Burger

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 31% | Fat = 16% | Carbs = 45%

Ingredients: Non-GMO whole oats, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, soybean oil, carrots, dried tomato pomace, dried potato product, dried molasses, deflourinated phosphate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, nutritional yeast, arginine, dl-methionine, kelp meal, taurine, garlic, enzyme bromelain from pineapple stem and fruit, enzyme papain from papaya, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium bifidum fermentation product, lysine, choline chloride, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D2 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, ascorbic acid, calcium pantothenate, manganous oxide, vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamin mononitrate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, folic acid, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B-2), inositol, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, zinc methionine complex, copper lysine complex, manganese, methionine complex, l-carnitine, arachidonic acid, rosemary extract, cobalt glucoheptonate

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 3.9%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis28%14%NA
Dry Matter Basis31%16%45%
Calorie Weighted Basis27%33%40%

The first ingredient in this dog food includes oats. Oats are rich in B-vitamins, minerals and dietary fiber.

The second ingredient is corn gluten meal. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once corn has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Compared to meat, glutens are inferior grain-based proteins lower in some of the essential amino acids dogs need for life.

This inexpensive plant-based ingredient can significantly boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The third ingredient is soybean meal, a by-product of soybean oil production more commonly found in farm animal feeds.

Although soybean meal contains 48% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fourth ingredient is soybean oil is red flagged here only due to its rumored (yet unlikely) link to canine food allergies.

However, since soybean oil is high in omega-6 fatty acids and contains no omega-3’s, it’s considered less nutritious than flaxseed oil or a named animal fat.

The fifth ingredient is carrots. Carrots are rich in beta-carotene, minerals and dietary fiber.

The sixth ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

The seventh ingredient is dried potato product, a dried residue of the potato processing industry primarily consisting of potato pieces, peelings and culls.

With the exception of perhaps its caloric content and a small amount of protein, potato product is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.1

The eighth ingredient is dried molasses. Although molasses can be rich in minerals, it’s also a less refined form of sugar with a glycemic index in humans similar to maple syrup.

Like table sugar (and in excessive amounts), molasses has the potential to raise a dog’s blood sugar.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With four notable exceptions

First, garlic can be a controversial item. Although most experts favor the ingredient for its numerous health benefits, garlic (in rare cases) has been linked to Heinz body anemia in dogs.2

However, the limited professional literature we surveyed provided no definitive warnings regarding the use of garlic — especially when used in small amounts (as it likely is here).

Next, we note the inclusion of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

In addition, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

And lastly, this this recipe also contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.

Since vitamin K isn’t required by AAFCO in either of its dog food nutrient profiles, we question the use of this substance in any canine formulation.

Evolution Diet Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Evolution Diet is (by design) a meatless product.

So, although we do recognize the need for some dog owners to provide (for whatever reason) a completely meat-free diet, we also respect a dog’s natural carnivorous bias.

That said, and before we determine our final rating, it’s still important to estimate how much plant-based protein might be present.

Judging by its ingredients alone, Evolution Diet looks like a below-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 31%, a fat level of 16% and estimated carbohydrates of about 45%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 31% and a mean fat level of 16%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 45% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 50%.

Above-average protein. Near-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

This is clearly the profile of a kibble containing absolutely no meat.

However, it’s unfortunate the company chose to include menadione in its recipe. For without this controversial ingredient, we would have been compelled to award this product a higher rating.

Bottom line?

Evolution Diet is a plant-based kibble using a notable amount of gluten and soybean meals as its main sources of protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content.

Those looking for a similar wet food from this same company may wish to visit our review of Evolution Diet canned dog food.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every report is directly dependent upon the quality of that data.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

03/06/2014 Last Update

  1. Dried Potato Product
  2. Yamato et al, Heinz Body hemolytic anemia with eccentrocytosis from ingestion of Chinese chive (Allium tuberosum) and garlic (Allium sativum) in a dog, Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association 41:68-73 (2005)
  • Shawna

    Hi Susan,

    So sorry I’m just now getting back to you!!

    Lectins are in about 30% of the food supply but not all foods with lectins will be problematic for all dogs. But what lectins can do is to damage the gut enough that other, poorly digested, foods can leak through. Then allergies to these foods can happen.

    Good news — not all lectins will be problematic for all those eating them. In my family alone — I react to dairy lectins, my dog Audrey and my grandson react to gluten and my hubby reacts to pinto bean lectins. I seem to have no problem with pinto beans and hubby seems to tolerate dairy just fine.

    If Patches were mine, I’d first limit all foods with lectins that he has already been exposed to as best as able (oats, wheat, barley, potato and chicken would be the ones I’d be most concerned with). I would also limit all grains and all dairy (even yogurt). If you can make a homemade (raw or cooked) diet for him that would be ideal (at least for a short food elimination trial). If not, then feed him the tapioca product as long as there’s no chicken in it. I’d also start him on a HIGH end probiotic and digestive enzymes.

    It makes sense that large amounts would be more problematic. When small amounts are fed, the body is able to produce enough IgA and mucin to prevent damage. But the more frequently fed or the larger amounts fed the body can’t keep up the production of IgA and mucin and you start to see symptoms. The body is reacting even before the symptoms are seen though. This can put unneeded stress on him. Best to completely avoid all foods you think are a problem (edit – oops, I see now that you were just noting the connection between larger amounts. Sorry for reiterating). Later you may be able to add some back in. Right now his immune system is too stressed.

    Unfortunately, I wouldn’t rely on a nutritionist for any help with lectins. Most human nutritionists aren’t knowledgeable about lectins. If you need or just want professional guidance, consider contacting Vet Dr. John Symes (or Dogtor J). He learned about lectins because of his own gluten sensitivity. He is a raw advocate though so you are forewarned. :)

  • Susan

    Hi Shawna, Thank-You so much for the info, Finally Im getting somewhere, Ive photo copied both links that you have put up, Patches vet is going to ring tonight to see how he’s doing, I was going to ask about changing his diet to a gulten free diet, I found Royal Canin Sensitivity Control Duck & Tapocia,the Austrailan one… I emailed R/C & the R/C Nutritionlist said to see a Nutritionist for a proper diet for Patch & said yes the S/Control is Gluten free but when I looked up Tapoica its a starch that has Lectins, so this diet probably wont be good for him, is that correct?? I dont know what he can eat Ive quickley googled Lectins & lectins are in alot of foods,now Im starting to understand why Patch couldnt eat certain foods, Potatos, rye, barley peas, I tried him on the Wellness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal he seemed to be doing good, than after 1-2 weeks he started having bad gas, sloppy poo, eating grass after eating, then he got a real sore throat & was waking thru the night swollowing & swollowing, I thought its was acid reflux, now Ive read that you can have a reaction to foods the Wellness Simple had millet, tomatoes peas they are high in lectins its looking like he cant eat foods that are high in Lectins. He’s on the vet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue, it has grites, corn chicken & turkey…..Do I see a nutritionist for a new diet for Patch, I know Patches vet wont know much about lectins, she mite but I doubt it..I’d say he needs a gluten grain & lectin free diet…..What foods are gluten grain, & lectin free…even fish is high in lectin, now I know why he didnt do good on his tuna, but he eats small amounts of pumkin & pumkin has lectin, Ive notice if its a small amount he’s OK its when its large amounts he has problems…gee what vet is going to know all about this…Thank-You Again now we can start treating poor Patch & end this 2 year mystery

  • Shawna

    Sorry, thought you might find this interesting too. The lectins set the stage for the infection in the first place (in theory at least). Bolded emphasis mine

    “Among the effects observed in the small intestine of lectin fed rodents
    is stripping away of the mucous coat to expose naked mucosa and
    overgrowth of the mucosa by abnormal bacteria and protozoa.14 Lectins also cause discharge of histamine from gastric mast cells,15
    which stimulates acid secretion. So the three main pathogenic factors
    for peptic ulcer—acid stimulation, failure of the mucous defence layer,
    and abnormal bacterial proliferation (Helicobacter pylori) are
    all theoretically linked to lectins.
    If true, blocking these effects by
    oligosaccharides would represent an attractive and more physiological
    treatment for peptic ulcer than suppressing stomach acid. The mucus
    stripping effect of lectins16
    also offers an explanation for the anecdotal finding of many allergists
    that a “stone age diet,” which eliminates most starchy foods and
    therefore most lectins, protects against common upper respiratory viral
    infections: without lectins in the throat the nasopharyngeal mucus
    lining would be more effective as a barrier to viruses.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436/

  • Shawna

    Hi Susan,

    I’ve read some reports suggesting that bacterial infections can trigger or worsen a lectin intolerance but the intolerance was there before the infection. And symptoms can be EXTREMELY diverse — incontinence, autoimmune disease, IBD, arthritis, kidney disease, diabetes and so on (been tested more on humans than on animals but vets who advocate a lectin free diet are showing positive responses).

    Most foods with lectins are plant based but a few animal based foods with lectins are chicken and eggs. Many, if not most, raw feeders feed chicken as it is easy and relatively inexpensive. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis, a form of IBD, if she eats chicken more than three days in a row. Her body reacts to the chicken on day one but has enough built up defences (IgA and mucin) to avoid symptoms. But by the 3rd or 4th day the IgA and mucin is depleted enough that the lectins bind with her gut wall and symptoms begin. Chicken as a cause of food intolerance is not exactly uncommon.

    The antibiotic is actually going to make him more susceptible to any lectins that bother him as the antibiotic will also kill off his beneficial bacteria. The beneficial bacteria protect against lectins in two ways. 1. they line the gut wall which prevents the lectin from being able to attach. 2. they help in the production of IgA which binds with the lectins also preventing them from attaching to the gut wall. Make sure and get him on a HIGH QUALITY probiotic (NOT yogurt) after, or even during, his course of antibiotics is done.

    And yes, I would definitely suggest a food that is free of any foods you suspect to be problematic. If he reacts to barley then you’ll also want to avoid wheat, rye, spelt (not usually in pet foods but have seen in some treats) and oats (which are technically gluten free but are often contaminated).

    When I was dealing with IBD in my Pom, I gave her SeaCure which helps rebuild tissue and therefore speeds healing. I also gave her a really good probiotic and the herb slippery elm which helps coat and sooth the gut wall.

    She was just over six months old when this all started and it took about a year to get her gut completely healed.

    We can talk more on Facebook too if you want?

    Edit — Here’s a good article on lectins if interested. http://www.institutefornaturalhealing.com/2009/07/lectins-a-little-known-trouble-maker/

  • Susan

    Maybe if they are dignosed with IBD as this seem to keep coming up with dogs with confirmed IBD…Raw would be best but alot of dogs with IBD dont do good on raw, IBD is an awful disease..

  • Susan

    My boy has just been dignosed with Lmyphocytic Gastritrits, When I did research Helicobacter & Celiac disease kept coming up with this illness & before I knew Patch had L/G he couldnt eat potatos barley rye peas etc.. at the time I thought he cant have starchy veggies but ur right its the protein in these veggies that he’s allergic to, so do I look for a Gluten free kibble ??? Im having trouble understanding Lymphocytic Gastritis vet said IBD confirmed.. I just thought he has the Helicobacter infection that comes with L/G & Patch would take Anitibiotics for 3 weeks then he’ll be fine but aparently no but I read some humans & dogs can get better on a controled diet thats Gluten free,

  • Shawna

    Lectins in, mostly plant based, foods cause problems too. Only not just allergies, lectins can cause leaky gut (which can be the cause of allergies to proteins). But more importantly, lectins can cause autoimmune diseases (in humans and dogs). Lectins are primarily found in legumes (including soy, green beans, peas, peanuts and other beans), all gluten grains (barley, rye, spelt, wheat and contaminated oats) and nightshade plants (including potatoes, peppers and tomatoes).

  • Shawna

    If dogs are truly omnivores, then wolves are too. But it doesn’t change what their bodies are “designed by nature” to eat. Please refer to my quote by Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart referenced in previous post.

  • Shawna

    I’m curious why you home cook if you feel there is no value in a less processed food. It is becoming very common knowledge that the less processing of a food the better the nutrition – steamed veggies retain more nutrients then boiled as an example.

    There are eight forms of vitamin E as just one example. Processed food manufacturers add alpha tocopherol back in and sometimes we see “mixed” tocopherols but you never see tocotrienols. Taurine is lost in processing, lysine is lost to even low heat etc.

    And, you are correct. I do have my mind made up — until someone can adequately prove otherwise. I’ve said I was wrong right here on this very website more than once before. I was wrong when I said potatoes can’t cause leaky gut – they can. I was wrong about there being excess salt in Fresh Pet foods as another example. If you have ANY reliable data to suggest I am wrong about highly processed foods being less nutritious than their minimally processed counterparts, then here is your opportunity to prove me wrong.

  • Shawna

    When you say BARF are you referring to a raw, protein based diet or to the actual commercial product called BARF?

    If you are referring to a raw diet in general than I’d like to present the remarks by Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart DVM, PhD (Dr. Smart taught veterinary nutrition for over 30 years by the way). She writes “I see a benefit in feeding whole foods whether cooked or raw. Genetically the dog and the anatomy of its digestive tract are closely aligned with that of the wolf. So we can use this as a dietary model when designing diets for the domestic dog.” http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/

    I apologize if I misunderstood your comment.

  • theBCnut

    What do allergies have to do with it? Some dogs are allergic to grains, tomato, and flax. Does that mean we should be feeding a food that contains zero plant matter?

  • Alexandra Strain

    You’re being very adversarial and clearly already have your mind made up so why would anyone bother to respond?

  • Alexandra Strain

    BARF diet is not recommend by ANY veterinary nutritionist.

  • Alexandra Strain

    My 3 are thriving on a vegan diet as are hundreds of other dogs. These people are presenting their ignorance and opinions as if they are facts. Quite sad.

  • Alexandra Strain

    Eldee, why don’t you research before making statements? Hundreds of dogs are thriving on a plant diet. I have three personally. One is a 13 year old White Shepherd who still runs very fast across the yard chasing squirrels. She’s a blur in fact when she runs. Personally, I do a home cooked diet. My three are thriving. You are basing your opinion purely on ignorance and that’s not ok.

  • Alexandra Strain

    No they are omnivores. They are part of the genus Carnivora but there are many omnivores in that order. Please check your facts.

  • Alexandra Strain

    No they are omnivores. They are part of the genus Carnivora but there are many omnivores in that order.

  • Alexandra Strain

    LOL I think you need a better understand of what cruelty means if you don’t think breeding, enslaving and killing non-humans isn’t cruel no matter how nice of a bow you put on it.

  • Alexandra Strain

    Our dogs are domesticated and have been for thousands of years. It’s ridiculous and not science based to compare them to wolves.

  • Alexandra Strain

    Why do you even bother rating vegan/vegetarian dog food when you clearly have a bias? It’s not ethical.

    Btw, some dogs are allergic to various animal sources of protein.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    You have been allowed to say whatever you wanted — but you have no right to be rude and disrespectful when you say it. So, consider yourself duly warned.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    How could you possibly label such a clear and direct response a “dodge”?

    In any case, the rude and discourteous nature of your remarks here today and elsewhere to both me and others has never gone unnoticed.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    How could you possibly label that clear and direct response a “dodge”?

    In any case, the rude and discourteous nature of your remarks here today and elsewhere to both me and others has never gone unnoticed.

  • USA Dog Treats

    Nice dodge!!!

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    USA Dog Treats,

    Nice reply. But unless you are feeding your dogs a vegetarian diet, your remarks here have nothing to do with the topic of this thread or my reply to it.

    Yes. I absolutely DO believe there is a huge difference between a dry dog food made with corn and soy beans and one based upon meat. Otherwise, why would I have created this website and posted all these reviews, in the first place?

  • USA Dog Treats

    Hi Mike,

    Nice reply, but it has nothing to do with the diet I feed my dogs or the diet I recommend others feed their dogs!

    You compared nutritionally unbalanced and incomplete fresh food diets to nutritionally balanced and complete kibbles.

    That’s like comparing a wrecked Mercedes Benz S class to a Dodge Dart in perfect condition and coming to the conclusion that the a Dodge Dart is a higher quality car than a Mercedes Benz S class.

    I will sum up my philosophy on the way ALL animals should be fed.

    A nutritionally complete and balanced fresh food diet that is based on what that animal and their ancestors have been eating over the last one hundred thousand years or so is the proper diet for that animal.

    The further away you go from this ideal the further you are from the ideal diet for a dog.

    If you take ANY fresh food diet and process it into a kibble without changing any ingredients do you really believe there is any comparison in quality or appropriateness between the two? I don’t.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi USA Dog Treats,

    Since your reply here had little to do with my response to this visitor’s inaccurate criticism of my personal understanding of a dog’s omnivorous nature, I had originally planned to ignore your remarks.

    However, to prevent others from absorbing your unfair and misleading comparison between “fresh” food and kibble, I decided that a response was necessary.

    You said, “Both of these foods need major supplementation to be nutritionally complete and balanced. Both of these foods are dry, heavily processed, preserved and far from fresh.”

    Do you actually believe that “fresh” ingredients automatically make a dog food “complete and balanced” and routinely superior to a good kibble?

    Of course, in order to meet the complete nutritional requirements of a dog, most commercial (and especially “fresh” home made) dog foods of all types do need to be supplemented.

    Many of the (fresh) raw frozen dog foods I’ve reviewed here contain no supplementation and likely do not meet the most basic nutritional needs of a dog.

    In fact, many of them do not even contain an FDA-compliant label that includes a Nutritional Adequacy Statement.

    So, it’s anyone’s guess as to whether they are indeed “complete and balance”, a statement that is so important, its use is actually regulated by Law.

    In addition, some of the raw fresh commercial diets I’ve recently come across are simply shocking.

    Many are made from low quality “fresh” fat and connective tissue (gristle). And are nothing more than chubs of fat.

    Some raw and canned foods contain so much fat that their fat-to-protein ratios actually exceed a 120%!

    And many also demonstrate a (modified Atwater) energy-weighted content of 80% of calories from fat.

    In addition, many who make and feed home made diets mistakenly believe their “fresh” home cooked meals are nutritionally superior to a commercial diet.

    In fact, many visitors to this website frequently boast that they feed their animals only the best — fresh boneless chicken breast and rice for every meal.

    Where’s the calcium in that diet?

    What about all the missing (essential) vitamins and minerals?

    A 100% fresh meat-based diet without a controlled amount of bone as well as a few plant based ingredients is likely to be nutritionally incomplete.

    For example, the calcium content becomes absolutely critical and potentially damaging when it comes to feeding any puppy whose adult weight will exceed 50 pounds.

    You also said, “I just don’t think any kibble is ‘A truly healthy or species appropriate omnivorous dog food'”.

    I’m not sure I could agree with such a sweeping and naive statement.

    I’d much rather feed my two precious dogs a quality, meat-based dry food pellet than many of the so-called “fresh” diets I routinely come across in our ongoing research.

  • USA Dog Treats

    Hi Dog Lover Plus,

    Thanks for your kind words!

  • Dog Lover Plus

    You said:

    “In the final analysis of Meat vs Vegetarian kibbles I believe it really
    doesn’t matter what the ingredients in any kibble started out as because
    all kibbles in the end have all the meat or vegetable within them turned into similar pellets of artificial nutrients.” AND also “One is rated 5 stars because of the meat and the other is rated 2 stars because of it’s lack of meat. In their current state I don’t think their meat content really matters anymore.” USA Dog Treats

    Clearly you are unaware that there are different types of proteins and that the bio-availability of meat based proteins is much higher for dogs. Also, plant based proteins tend to not cover the various protein needs of a non-herbavore unless they are properly balanced, as any nutritionally aware vegan can tell you. It’s not simple matter of choosing plant protein over meat protein, as only a few plants have the very specific proteins in them required to subsist an omnivore on a vegan diet. You cannot simply eat soybeans an expect to be healthy because your getting protein in your diet; it only accounts for one type of protein.

    You also seem to lump all kibbles into the same unsatisfactory category, which shows me how obtuse you are being. Just because to your eye all kibbles look the same, does not make them the same or even “similar”. The form in which one receives either high or low quality nutrition is far less important than the fact that that nutrition is either high or low quality.

    You come across as attempting to be knowledgeable about that which you speak of, but to me you are simply making it known just how ignorant you are of that which you attempt to expound upon.

  • Dog Lover Plus

    pfolfried, you don’t seem to acknowledge that you can make meat based choices in feeding your dog that also take into account animal cruelty issues with other animals. A topic I’m VERY concerned about in choosing the dog food I feed to my dog.

    Nature is a cruel guardian, but we humans can make choices which reduce or eliminate it’s cruelty in making choices which maximize the potential for happiness in our dogs without having that happiness be at the expense of another animals suffering. We can also make choices which take into account
    environmental issues. But, let us remember, it is we who are the cause of environmental issues and not our dogs.

    By all means, go into the wild and find a pack of wolves and try to convince them to not eat meat, to not tear into a living and feeling animal and
    to subsist on plant material only, even in winters coldest hour. Convince them that they are omnivores and able to subsist off plants alone. Force your high minded ideals onto nature by all means and see how far that gets you.

    It is not that I disagree with both of your premises, in fact I agree with them both most heartily, but you are discounting the option to make both of those choices and do what’s best for your dogs happiness, an animal which in the expression of its genes shows a decided preference for a predominately meat diet even as it forages for plant materials to subsist on.

  • Dog Lover Plus

    “However, they are omnivores with an obvious and undeniable carnivorous bias.” Mike Sagman

    For me, this pretty much says it all. Although my dog does forage for plant materiel, if he sees a dead fish laying on the ground you can be assured that he will do all that he can to get to that fish. It’s about a dogs happiness and force feeding them something bland just to suit their owners preconceived notion of right and wrong is wrong and unjust in my opinion, let them express their genes and be happy.

  • aquariangt

    Humerous comment, yes. And I definitely agree with adding eggs and (to an extent) dairy making it far easier to balance a diet-same with humans. The state of dairy in this country has made the nutritional value of it less enticing thus me saying to an extent.

    I do agree that it is possible, but I’m certainly of the belief that dogs have a bias towards meat (which I believe you do as well?)

  • USA Dog Treats

    Hi aquariangt,

    I took a look at your past comments. You have expressed very strong opinions in “most” of your 133 comments in the 6 months you have been here.

    You have asked people to back up their opinions with PROOF (links, scientific evidence, studies, etc) at least 9 times.You even made this promise 2 months ago that you never kept:

    “I’m on a trip, so when I get back I will send research, credible, your way”

    Do you know how many times YOU have sent “research, credible” anyones way? ZERO!!!

    Not once have YOU presented any scientific research to back up YOUR opinions, yet you have no problem asking, even demanding others to do the same.

    In your reply to me you said this about vegans;

    “I’m certainly not bashing all vegans (I know a lot of them, I live in a high concentrated area of people with that lifestyle)”

    You’re right, you are not bashing ALL vegans, just “most” of them. This is what you had to say about “most” vegans in a comment you made 2 months ago:

    “most vegans I know just eat processed crap because they’re too lazy to be educated on proper nutrition and what it takes to be a vegan”

    Keep up the good work!!!

  • aimee

    Science/ research never proves anything. A scientist makes reasonable conclusions based on available data and is always open to changing those conclusions as new data becomes known. That is how science “works”

    I got a chuckle out of a poster who wrote something along the lines of if you want proof go to the liquor store.

    What is known is that a dog’s known nutrient needs can all be met without the need for animal products.

    It is challenging to meet nutrient requirements via vegan diet but it can be done. It is easier to meet nutritional needs if diet allows eggs and dairy to be used.

    There are poor vegan/vegetarian diets and there are poor meat based diets. Feeding a meat free diet doesn’t make it a “poor” diet anymore than feeding a meat based diet makes it a “good” diet.

    Here is a short term study done in which a meat free diet was fed to dogs under high nutritional demand.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19480731

  • aquariangt

    :(

  • Jarrodsmom

    Now that does make a big difference if they are indeed a male. I would be offended myself to be called honey. Usually when I do it, it’s face to face or on the phone. I would probably never call someone honey on the Internet now that I think of it. I did also appolize to Dori for jumping into it. Now that I know more of the story, I would never have spoken.

  • theBCnut

    Of course, since you are Jarrod’s Mom, the “rules” are probably more relaxed. From Pfolfried’s tone and confrontational manner, I assume it is a he, and I think others here made the same assumption. A man calling someone Honey comes across differently. And tone is completely lost on the internet.

  • Jarrodsmom

    Your right. I did not see any other rude comments by that person. I should have just kept my mouth shut but it just surprised me to have someone be jumped on. Or as least that is how it came across to me. Unfortunately, my dear mother and grandmother taught me the honey bit. But as I said, I have never been accused of offending anyone. Let’s just start over. People, feed your dog right and love them as they should be loved. No abuse!!

  • theBCnut

    Me, no, I’m not upset. I might have been incredulous. I live in the “backwards” South, and even here people know that you don’t call strangers Honey. But I wouldn’t have posted my surprise at all, if your post had come up for me before I posted. That’s why I editted to add. I would have deleted the whole post, but I knew you could have gotten an email of the original, and I didn’t really want to leave it that way. Sorry, I didn’t express myself well. Sorry, my timing was bad. BTW, I never saw you call anyone Honey, only that you were defending someone who had already made rude comments to others, not just Jellycat.

  • Jarrodsmom

    Whatever. Seriously? Your upset because of my habit of calling people honey? Did I say it was ok? I believe I said it was a habit? I’ve never ran into anyone that has been offended by me calling them honey. Until now. I’ve even apologized to the person and they said no problem, it’s fine. And I did not even call YOU honey. This is getting ridiculous. Your picking on people for the most silliest things. Really thought this was a thread about dog food. I agree with Dori. I’m done with this thread. Have fun picking this apart.

  • Dori

    Thank you for your apology as I did not put anyone down. I’m done with this thread. : )

  • theBCnut

    Seriously? You think it’s OK to call complete strangers Honey? Wow!
    ETA:OH! I just saw your post, and apparently you do. Maybe you should consider that the strangers you are calling Honey will feel that you are condescending. It’s not at all the same thing as when you know someone, not at all.

  • theBCnut

    Sorry, I had to run off and take care of a minor emergency before I finished, but all I wanted to add was that I’m not trying to tell anyone which pets they can adopt, I just don’t understand why they don’t feel morally obligated to rescue animals that have their eating philosophies as a natural requirement, but instead adopt doga and cats for which their eating philosophy is very unnatural. To me, compassion has to take into account what is right for the other, not for self.

  • theBCnut

    Then they also have no right to tell people how they should feed. Dogs are not vegan and should not eat vegan. Processed food is not healthy. I don’t know a single vegan who would feed themselves only on processed foods, but that is what the vegans who come on here and preach vegan food for dogs are doing. BTW, I have guina pigs and have had many rabbits. They make great pets and I feed them vegan diets, because that is what is appropriate for them. I don’t feed my pets so they will survive, I feed so they will thrive

  • Jarrodsmom

    Yes, I guess one could take it that way. But one could also take it in a softer note, as i took it. I have a habit of calling people honey. It seemed to me, and this is only one persons opinion mind you, you accused someone of attacking another but in fact it was you that attacked. If that was not your intention, I appolize for my post. I hate to see people putting down other people for having their own opinions. There were some very interesting views posted and I try and be open minded to all. Not that I agree with some but I do take into account that some know more about something than I do. So I will do my homework. I agree with you full heartedly in the hope that people are treating and feeding their animals the best that can be offered. As guardians we should be doing our best for our furry, feathered friends.

  • aquariangt

    I would say you are correct, Dori. When people use pet names on strangers, it’s usually condescending

  • Dori

    I’m not offended by the discussion at all. You’ll note that I did not post until pfolfried posted to Jellycat. Frankly it’s not my business or responsibility what anyone feeds their animals. I hope and believe that we are all doing the best we can with whatever information, education and experiences we have gained. I felt bad for Jellycat being told “Honey, read up”. It’s akin to a little pat on the top of your head and…”oh you poor misinformed person, if only you would read you would know better”. Just as pfolfried is entitled to her beliefs, so is Jellycat. That was the only reason for my post on this thread. As said, just as I feed my dogs what I feel is best for them, I’m sure that pfolfried is feeding her/his dogs what he/she feels is best. Hopefully none of us is trying to feed our canines the worst that we can.

  • aquariangt

    Find me a non vegan that feeds their dog a vegan diet and are informed on the dangers and I will change my tune. I’m certainly not bashing all vegans (I know a lot of them, I live in a high concentrated area of people with that lifestyle) and I know plenty of vegans that feed their dogs properly, including some who even do raw, because they understand not to push their ideals on their pets.

    I disagree with you that they need to make excuses for how they feed their dogs-it’s not a healthy way to feed something with no control over their own diet, and no choices. I would like to see one of them come to the table with some facts instead of their own concept of the way animals are treated.

    I also disagree with your comment of one animals life over another. In the outside world, animals eat each other. Dogs are not at the bottom of the food chain, and people need to realize that.

    I’m sorry you’re offended by my comments, but I certainly do not have any respect towards feeding a vegan diet to a dog, especially because one has the means to do otherwise. I’d be curious to see how much all of these people do for animals since they come onto a website VERY CLEARLY biased towards meat based foods and try to change people’s minds. Do they work with rescues? Do they volunteer their time training for dogs that are in need? Have they worked with animal shelters? I have, and I eat meat. I’ve worked on sustainable foods movements, I’ve humanely raised market animals. You saying that it’s because they have a deeper respect towards animals is also a generalized statement, because most of the vegans I know, and I’m going to say the majority of the ones who come on here and try to attack meat based foods, have done less than many of us on here that feed our dogs a proper diet

    Edit: Trying to space out the paragraphs, i’m always bad at that on here

  • USA Dog Treats

    A vegan who rescues a dog to save that dog’s life and feeds them a vegan diet because they believe in the sanctity of life for ALL animals is a lot more humane than a meat eating person who sacrifices the lives of thousands of animals because they believe it’s a more appropriate diet.

    Vegans have dogs for the same reasons you do and you have no right to tell vegans to adopt a rabbit or guinea pig the same way they have no right to tell you what animal YOU should adopt!

  • Jarrodsmom

    Yes. I know that. My post referred to my ferrets

  • USA Dog Treats

    Hi aquariangt,

    You comment is very rude and disrespectful to Vegans.

    You refer to vegans as if they’re all the same. That is the kind of stereotypical slur that should NEVER be used towards a group of people based on WHAT FOODS THEY EAT! Especially people, some of which deny themselves foods because they choose to do no harm to animals.

    Vegans don’t need to “make excuses” for the diet they feed their dogs anymore than you need an excuse for the diet you feed your dog(s).

    Most vegans have a deep respect for ALL animals, they don’t hold the value of one animal’s life above the value of another animal’s life. That is a quality that I believe is worthy of respect not ridicule.

  • DogFoodie

    You do know that you should never feed your dog raisins, right?

  • Jarrodsmom

    I agree with you on the cats and ferrets. All of mine (2 cats, 4 ferrets) are on a meat diet. With a few raisens mixed in as a treat.

  • Jarrodsmom

    I don’t believe pfolfried meant that as an “insulting” response. I think your one of the “annoyed” people regarding the discussion. Honey, read up, they can? Doesn’t sound insulting to me. I plan on reading up on it myself.

  • theBCnut

    If they can’t, I don’t understand how they can be so inhumane and own a dog when there are so many poor rabbits and guinea pigs in shelters needing homes. They have no compassion.

  • Dori

    The funny thing is that a lot of vegans will put aside their beliefs when it comes to their dogs and feed them a species appropriate diet. I don’t understand why they can’t all do that.

  • aquariangt

    Do you have anything that supports that? Maybe two sibling dogs one raised on kibble that is heavily meat reliant, and one that is vegan?
    Keep in mind that when we say thrive on here, we most likely don’t mean the same thing you do-based on your thoughts on dog food.

  • aquariangt

    Do they ever? the vegans come running onto one of these threads every so often attempting (poorly) to make excuses for feeding their dogs a poor diet, and I’ve never seen one link any research proving that a vegan diet is somehow as healthy or healthier than a meat based diet.

  • Dori

    There really was no reason for your insulting response to JellyCat. No call for it whatsoever! We may at times get annoyed with some posters, we try in a civilized way to get our point across, we try to learn from others points of view, BUT…..we also try very hard not to be insulting. We may think insulting thoughts from time to time but we attempt not to insult each other on this site. : (

  • Shawna

    I’m curious, do you feel you would “thrive” on a pelleted food made balanced by the use of synthetic nutrients? Keep in mind, even though complete and balanced, you have to eat this food for every meal every day for at least 10 years. Would you thrive?

    If you are being realistic with yourself, the answer will be no. So why then do you feel your dog can thrive on a food like this?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Anyone (like you) who can argue that a totally meatless, 100% plant-based herbivorous diet is appropriate for an omnivorous animal (like a dog) might just be the one who is not scientific here and “poorly informed”.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Yes. Dogs are indeed omnivores. Yet they also demonstrate an unmistakable carnivorous bias.

    Vegetarian (meatless) foods are made for herbivores. Not omnivores.

    True omnivorous diets and the better dog foods designed to replicate them contain a mixture of both animal and plant-based ingredients.

    Those (like you) who impose a strict meatless diet on their dogs are surely not feeding their pets as omnivores but as herbivores.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    So you believe a vegetarian food (like this one) is designed for feeding to an omnivore?

    If so, it appears you might be the one who is misinformed and clueless.

    For a more accurate understanding of this author’s worldview regarding canine nutrition, please be sure to read the following important article:

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/

    As I wrote in that article and in many other remarks posted throughout this website, the reviews and ratings here are based on the important scientific principle that dogs are indeed omnivores.

    However, they are omnivores with an obvious and undeniable carnivorous bias.

    Vegetarian foods (like this) are not based on the fact a dog is an omnivore but rather an herbivore.

    And those (like you) who would impose these flawed diets on their omnivorous pets make the erroneous assumption that a dog is a plant-eating creature.

    And that is an assumption that is scientifically incorrect and simply not true.

    A truly omnivorous dog food would not just contain soybeans and grains but would include a mixture of both animal-based and plant-based ingredients.

    And that is why we assign meatless dog foods like this a lower rating.

  • theBCnut

    Yet, you don’t provide better links/sources to prove your point. There all sorts of scientific papers puplished on the internet.

  • pfolfried

    OMG, all this misinformation on this site. Dogs are Omnivores, just like you!!!!!!!!!

  • pfolfried

    Honey, read up, they can.

  • pfolfried

    I agree. This is a highly biased site, developed by someone who is poorly informed and thrives by spreading this misinformation by giving it a “scientific” appearance.

  • pfolfried

    dot.com’s are not appropriate references since those are poorly researched.

  • pfolfried

    They thrive perfectly fine on plant-based food.

  • pfolfried

    Yes, they can, just as you could if you would consider cruelty to other animals besides dogs.

  • pfolfried

    This author does not understand that dogs are Omnivores, hence perfectly set up to digest vegan /vegetarian diets; just as people.The sentence (“for whatever reason” in regards to people wanting to feed a meatless diet to their dogs) shows a total clueless approach related to environmental and cruelty issues to animals other than dogs. .

  • theBCnut

    She is probably looking at teenagers who are rebelling against their parents and have decided to “go vegan,” but haven’t bothered to do the research necessary to do it right. We have one of those in our family and she looks terrible, but I really don’t think of her as vegan or count her as someone I know who is vegan. A diet of French fries and Mountain dew does not a vegan make.

  • Rachael_Dawn_De

    I would like to add an underrepresented voice here, the medical side of needing a vegetarian diet for your dog. My 11 year old Boxer developed food intolerance issues and cannot eat any protein source found in dog kibbles, not even the hypoallergenic options. I almost lost him, and then I found a vegetarian recipe soy protein based dog food. I really wish there were more choices in vegetarian dog foods for my situation. Please keep in mind that there are some situations in which you have no choice but to feed your dog a vegetarian diet. My dog is happy and healthy again, thanks to vegetarian kibble.

  • JellyCat

    Life is not fair. There are other dogs that suffer. There are people that suffer too. Unfortunately, we have to eat meat and especially dogs.
    I’m actually not very happy with most agricultural practices used to grow crops to make this food too. It is not organic and non GMO either.
    You sure do sound like 0 impact man. Do you only buy fair trade products and non china/bangladesh products? You should also drive the most fuel efficient vehicle, car pool, and bike to work. Make sure to also use eco friendly cleaning supplies and personal care products. And of course, compostable (not bio-digradable!) dog poop bags. Otherwise just by the virtue of being alive and in developed country you impose too much suffering upon living things on this planet.

    Meanwhile, I’ll stick with my free run chickens, farmed pork, quails, bison and Alberta beef.

  • Rockajt

    …and I didn’t even touch on that most animals harvested for food would LOVE to have a space the size of a small apartment all their own. I’m sure they would love to go on walks twice a day too. Your view of what constitutes animal mistreatment is very warped. If your dog were subject to half of what the food it eats has to endure, I’m sure you would see differently.

  • Rockajt

    Nothing’s to say dogs can’t be heathy, and unhealthy, with both diets. Thats kind of my point. The Bramble example shows that some dogs can thrive on a vegan diet, not that it is better or worse.

    Just having fun here…exuberant sarcasm illustrates how some owners I’ve met feel about this diet. Kind of ridiculous.

  • Rockajt

    Hmmm…then I’m confused as to why you were even looking, much less posting, on this food to begin with. If your not vegetarian, your animals are not, and you think walking a dog twice a day in an apartment is worse than slaughtering live cattle, why would you even look into this food other than to be rude to people’s dietary choices?

  • losul

    Again, I think you miss my point, Rockajt.

    When parts of the story have too many inconsistencies, I begin to question the whole story.

    But lets say for a minute that there is truth to the story. Bramble was an extraordinary dog, and that the owner, Ms Heritage was a special and dedicated person that carefully nurtured and fed Bramble with nothing but fresh (certainly not kibble), legumes, grains, vegetables, and other plant material.

    Whats to say that that extraordinary dog along with extraordinary nurturing didnt have the potential to live to age 33 on a meat based diet.

    BTW, theres really no reason to get so loud, sarcastic, and defensive. Chill.

  • JellyCat

    I don’t see anything wrong with killing animals for food. I don’t see much torture in most agricultural practices. I do however prefer smaller farms.
    I for instance believe that keeping dog in the apartment and walking him twice a day constitutes torture as well.
    My animals do not only eat buffalo and beef, they get other meats as well and so do I.

  • Rockajt

    Thanks!
    And I get it, 25 years old is just too young for most people to consider this diet worth it. Now if the dog lived to 27, THEN it might be worth noting, but at 25? That makes me skeptical! Of course it is all the liberal elite vegans in the media trying to hype this up. I can just see them all siting around a table thinking of ways to encourage us to eat less animal. And, if this wasn’t enough, they want to turn our dogs too! NOT IN MY COUNTRY!! All these sciencey amino acids and supplements…I DON”T TRUST EM’! It aint natural for my pooch they way a hormone-fed, antibiotic-injected, diseased, tortured cow is.
    Now that Bramble’s age has been questioned, I’m not sure I can justify trying vegetarian food with my dog…

  • Rockajt

    Agreed. I guess the fact that animals kill and torture other animals makes current slaughterhouse practices ok. We are pretty much mimicking nature these days in our meat production, so I can see why people would think its healthier all-around.

    Naturally, those species all go hunting for cattle and buffalo to eat.

  • losul

    Uh, seriously? NO thats’ my point. I cant take the story very seriously, especially when you have one British tabloid reporting the short story, vegan sites all over hyping that one story and giving ages as 27 or 28, and when the owner’s own memoirs says the dog died at age 25. So what is the real story?

    Excuse me for being skeptical, I think I probably tend to be that way whenever someone tempts fate by trying to fool mother nature.

    Rockajt, I wish you and your dog(s) the best of luck in your vegan experiments, seriously.

  • JellyCat

    Superior nutrition wise. I only use high quality meat based kibble on rare occasion. Otherwise I currently make home made raw and sometimes use commercual raw and freeze dried. My dog is doing great on this diet. In fact, he only does so well on raw specie appropriate diet.
    Also I have a cat and ferrets. For the exception of one ferret all of them eat meat. It is specie appropriate and the only type if food cats and especially ferrets can tolerate. Ferrets by the way naturally torture their pray. Pole cats are known for piercing heads of their pray to cripple but not kill so that they pray could be stored. Dogs are not gentle creatures either.

  • Lynn

    I totally agree with you. However, that being said, I am not a raw feeder. Canned and kibble and homemade stew is for me.

  • Rockajt

    Superior how? I guess I see feeding a dog other dead (possibly diseased, tortured, corn-fed, ect…) animals as a last resort, and was happy to figure out that it wasn’t the only option. Cadaver is not something I’d really like to buy (if possible) for my dog.

    When I take her into the vet, and I do so regularly, I’ll re-evaluate this decision. If the dog were unhealthy by any means, we would go back to mixing flesh-kibble in with the vegan stuff. As of now, the dog dosen’t seem to mind and is perfectly healthy. She loves to eat carrots! When we adopted, she was very overweight, had a bad coat, bad skin, had diarrhea, and was throwing up most of her “natural diet” flesh-based food. A year later, she’s doing great!

    And isn’t all kibble “processed”?

  • Shawna

    I’m a species appropriate raw feeder.. I definitely understand the value of animal based protein. But dogs can have long lives on plant based diets if the diet is well balanced. I don’t condone it and I agree that they can’t truly thrive but they can survive.

    For the record, I don’t think dogs can truly thrive on a kibble diet either. They can be healthy but I don’t think they can be their best..

  • Rockajt

    I believe the owner was vegan, so it’s unlikely that the dog was secretly fed steaks. And honestly, who cares? The fact that many dogs can thrive on this diet for a considerable amount of time could mean it’s not as bad for dogs as people claim.
    Was Bramble 26, 21, 27? Was she vegan her WHOLE life? Did someone VERIFY all this?

    …Seriously?

  • Eldee

    I don’t think they can live on plants for very long. They need meat proteins to survive. I was just saying that putting a dog or cat on a vegan diet will not allow them to thrive as they should.

  • JellyCat

    I disagree about “health improvements” on vegan diet for carnivore, especially on commercial vegetable based kibble.

    I don’t mind adding vegetable matter to dog’s diet but not exclusively feeding vegetables.

    It would be extremely hard to meet dog’s nutritional requirements by feeding natural vegan diet (without supplements). It is hard enough for a human, never mind for a carnivore.

    Feeding less processed natural foods that naturally do not require supplementation is always superior to feeding highly processed and heavily supplemented diet.

  • Shawna

    Yes, it all applies EXCEPT dogs are not “obligate” carnivores. Rather, they are facultative carnivores. They do best on meat but can derive their amino acids needs from plant if they have to.

    The BV of the amino acids in the protein eaten is just as important in dogs as in cats.

  • losul

    Vegans like to claim that. I believe that Brambles was at one time considered for a spot in the Guiness book of world records, but I could never find where they could ever verify the dogs age or that it was ever included in the book. Also how could anyone ever verify that the dog was actually vegan and for how long of its life?

  • Rockajt

    Didn’t a dog live to 27 on a “only vegan” diet? Not saying variety is bad–there are plenty of vegies out their that dogs will eat. While this diet might not be healthy for a few dogs, if it is done correctly it can work for most. Some owners even see health improvements. If a food is rich in amino acids that make it work for your dog, why not?

  • Eldee

    I would imagine this blurb would apply to dogs as well. From the Mercola Pets website.

    Cats are obligate carnivores. Obligate means by necessity. Merriam-Webster defines obligate as “biologically essential for survival.” This means an obligate carnivore like a cat must eat meat to survive. It has to do with the amino acid profile in animal tissue, which is a “complete” profile, vs. the amino acids provided by plant proteins.

    The quality of protein is also important. The biological value (BV) of a protein measures the bioavailability of its amino acid content. Better quality proteins have higher BVs, meaning they are easier for the body to digest, absorb, and use properly. It’s never just about the amount of protein you feed your cat – it’s also about the source (animal vs. plant-based) and bioavailability

  • Eldee

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/25/vegan-diet-dangers.aspx
    Just thought I would post this link vegan vs meat for pet foods.

  • JellyCat

    The only issue is that dogs cannot survive on vegetarian food only, while people can. This food is rich in artificially added amino acids, otherwise dogs would not survive.
    Never mind that it is very poor practice to feed one food only.

  • Rockajt

    It’s because the website does not recognize vegetarian/vegan diets as healthy for all dogs. 2 stars is the best any non-flesh-containing food can do. I’d say it’s fine for most, terrible for a few, and amazing for some. If most people consume animal cadaver regularly, how can there possibly not be a bias toward vegetarian/vegan dogs?
    The number of owners who wouldn’t even consider putting their canines on this diet (like you did) when they are sick and unhealthy is staggering.
    The food smells great (the canned stuff can even stay in the fridge!) and it’s safe to say that most dogs, if started early on and phased in correctly, will be fine on top veg/vegan food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Why not just feed them something that is appropriate for their specie instead.

  • Connie Trumpf

    A dogs digestive tract is very short and they tend to not chew their food very well, thus why it is important to make the veggies into a mush after steaming so their body can gain better access to the nutrients contained within the vegetable. Best evaluation as to their ability to digest is to examine their stool.

  • JellyCat

    Hey, I eat meat and don’t even have acne :P
    Maybe I don’t eat enough of it??

  • Pattyvaughn

    You’re not the only one!

  • InkedMarie

    Oops. Guess I should wake up before posting! Sorry Erin!!

  • Pattyvaughn

    She just said she used the same rationalization that Hah used. She wasn’t saying they do look like that.

  • InkedMarie

    pretty sure all meat eaters don’t look like you said. Go back to wherever you came from.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    LOL they’ve both made quite the generalizations – if these statements are true then everyone on the planet either has horrible stringy hair and bad nails or is morbidly obese with acne.

  • Erin

    I’m vegan and I’m pretty sure I don’t look like that…with the same rationalization have you ever seen people that eat meat THEY DON’T LOOK HEALTHY they are obese from eating so many burgers, they have horrible stubby fat finger and really oily acne riddled skin. Imagine what this diet does to poor animals. They will all be obese soon too! – give me a break. You are ridiculous.

  • losul

    Seriously, are you trying to say that you are about 118 years old?

    “I developed our Evolution Diet to stop Animal suffering. It is the same reason why I stopped eating Animals when I was eighteen. Imagine becoming a vegetarian about 100 years ago.”

  • Guest

    Did that cat have arthritis or an illness of some kind requiring it to have splints or leg amputation because you had it on a vegan diet? I’m kidding, as I’m sure you know a cat could die with out a diet almost exclusively of meat and importantly, taurine. But seriously you don’t make cat food too, do you?

    If the court found you not guilty then you should not be ridiculed, apart from, for manufacturing this extremely terrible excuse for a man-dubbed dog food.

  • Guest

    Hi Eric, I don’t anything about your story or past other than your posting just then which had me read Mari’s then your post. No judgement here other than the following:-

    You stated, ” I know that it costs more to make a great Vegan Pet Foods then many
    premium meat pet foods becasue we do not use disgarded and diseased
    animals like all other meat, poultry and fish based pet foods do.”……I think that’s a contradiction in terms. If “premium meat pet foods” are premium, then such would not be including discarded diseased or contaminated animal parts. Otherwise such should not be termed, “premium”. Now the use of premium or just non diseased or contaminated meats does not cost less than the use of any carbohydrates. In what world does it cost more?

    The other judgement is that this food I deem as a slap in the face to nature by denying the dog any meats or more importantly meat based proteins hence meat based amino acids. I what world is the dog, a carnivorous creature, a vegan? Wholly schmolly!

  • http://twitter.com/toons1234 Eric Weisman

    The cat in question was not walking on its’ joints because I splinted the cat’s legs everyday. The skin disease that this cat had was linked to to an organism that the attending vet could not cure. Yes there was a vet involved in this case but the City Pages lied about the care the cat was getting and the vet at the University made assumptions that were not true because he never say the cat until I brought it there for an autopsy. The Ciy Pages made it seem like I was covering up foul play when nothing could be further from the truth. Also: There was an attending veterinarian in this case, but he wanted to amputate the cats’ front legs and I thought it was better to just splint the legs by using wooden splints and taping, cleaning them so the cat could at least walk and have a reasonable quality of life in his last days.

    Again: The court found that I was not guilty on any charges of animal cruelty whatsoever and that is why the charges were dropped.

    You should read what City Pages is sometime. It sells sex, escorts and message parlors. I guess that makes it a reputable newspaper if you are into whips and chains.

  • http://twitter.com/toons1234 Eric Weisman

    Mari: You forgot to tell the audience here that ALL charges of Practicing Veterinary Medicine, Human Medicine & Animal Cruelty were dropped because an overwhelming number of clients and friends came forward and told the court that I, Eric Weisman have effectively assisted them and their sick or near death dogs and cats often without any charge whatsoever.
    The City of Little Canada knew the charges were entirely bogus and without merit long before they were brought. I know this because they spent a fortune interviewing so many of the same people that defended me and I saw their lack of evidence.

    I still run a Holistic Pracitice and assist people with their sick and near death animals every day. The procedures that I have developed are life saving and low in cost to those that can afford them. For those that can not afford the procedures or to those that help run animal shelters, I offer consults and written programs at no fee.

    Many friends and clients also told the court of my 22 years of rescuing homeless dogs, cats, and occassional wild animal paying for their neuters and spays when necessary, paying for disease care and placing them in fostor homes. Again: I have done this for 22 + years and I am still doing it.

    The dentist that edits this site is entitled to his opinion, but Evolution fed animls are some of the longest and healthiest living dogs and cats. We can not guarantee any increase in life expectancy, but we have sworn statements that we can provide for proving how long and how healthfully Vegan Dogs and Cats can live.

    Evolution Pet Foods are the most highly fortified Vegan Pet Foods in the Pet Food Industry and perhaps the most highly fortified pet foods made anywhere. That together with the fact that they are made from much cleaner ingredients then meat, poultry and fish pet foods is the reason why so many dogs and cats have lived such long and healthy lives on them. It costs a lot more to make a highly fortified Vegan Dog and Cat Food then it does to make a meat, poultry or fish based pet food because all meat, poultry and fish based Pet Grade Foods contain disguarded and diseased animal tissue. Evolution Pet Foods had not had one toxicity recall in its entire 24 year history because we do not use disguarde sick animls in any of our Pet Foods.

    I continue to help the underprivaledged people, dogs, cats and other animals everyday at my own cost. I sell Evolution Diet Pet Foods at the lowest cost I can and still stay in business. I know that it costs more to make a great Vegan Pet Foods then many premium meat pet foods becasue we do not use disgarded and diseased animals like all other meat, poultry and fish based pet foods do.

    Regarding my chiropractic licence and the reason why it was revoked: I have been working on effective cancer- tumor and organ failure procedures for years prior to my licence being lost. The reason why I lost it is because I was deveoping and improving these procedures and saving and extending dog and cat lives. The board of chiropractic did not appreciate the fact that I was competing with veterinary medicine and saving and extending animal lives while practicing chiropractic at the same time. My procedures are much improved from those days and I have helped many more people with their beloved near death dogs and cats then I ever could have if I had my chiropractic licience reinstated. In my mind nothing is more important then reducing pain and suffering in this very cruel and brutal world. Non Human Animals suffer in far greater numbers and often in far worse ways then Humans. In fact, it is Humans that make most other Animals suffer so horrifically and without mercy.

    I developed our Evolution Diet to stop Animal suffering. It is the same reason why I stopped eating Animals when I was eighteen. Imagine becoming a vegetarian about 100 years ago. I work everyday on sick Animals that I care for personally and help my clients care for around the country.

    Yes: I still do a weekly Cable TV Program in 20 MN Cities every week explaining how important Animals are because they live and they have families and friends much like we do. I tell people not to eat them and how important a Vegan or Vegetarian Diet is for their Health and their Mental Well Being. I talk to people everywhere, everyday about going Vegan and Vegetarian and I give free Vegan Food Programs to People that watch our TV Program and others that meerly deliver mail or other products to our offices. I feed and water the wildlife in front of our house and offices almost everyday or I have someone else do it.

    Call me different, but call me dedicated to making a better world. Isn’t that the most important legacy we can leave behind? We aren’t here very long. I want to make sure that when I die, I go remebering all the good things I have done. Of course I have made mistakes. I have made some whoppers. All of us make mistakes: To err is Human.

    I know some of the people that come to this website are not Vegan or Vegetarian. I ask those of you that are not to think about the terrible filth that farm animals must live in and how they trucked, beaten and mutilated before they die horrific deaths in slaughterhouses and rendering plants. Remeber that you can remove yourself from supporting the horrors of Animal Farming and Animal Torture, Mutilation and Killing by improving to a Vegan or at least Vegetarian Diet.

    Please excuse my spelling and gramatical mistakes

    Thank you for your time: Eric Weisman

  • InkedMarie

    wow, quite the generalization.

  • Hah

    So sick of these people “my dog lived to be 30 on a vegan diet” or “my cat lived to be 20 on a vegan diet”. Please. Have you ever seen a vegan person? THEY DON’T LOOK HEALTHY. They have dead stringy hair, horrible finger and toenails and grey sickly skin. Imagine what this diet does to poor animals.

  • Hah

    You can look in their mouths and see their “natural carnibvorous bias”. Dogs need B3. They can’t synthesize it. B3 only comes in animals. End of story. Unless you want a vegan dogs that has bad hair, bad nails and grey skin just like their owners, steer clear of vegan/vegetarian diets for dogs.

  • JellyCat

    The only reason you are able “to raise your dogs as vegetarians” is because manufacturers of this food and other vegetarian formulas artificially add amino acids, including essential amino acids, that are naturally present only in products of animal origin. There is also enzymes and ferments that can be found in animal parts and organs.

    If you have a background in nutrition and biology you should be able to understand that dogs simply do not have some digestive tract features that would enable them to process plant matter in the way human digestive tract can. And the only reason they can be fed vegetarian is that you would process plant matter and artificially supplement essential nutrients.

  • Ping

     My dog was 6 yrs old and near dead from sickness and underweight.  She was being fed 6 cups of a purina kibble daily.  She tested positive for lyme disease, she had worms, dry falling out hair, bad breath, lumps under her skin.  I took her home and put her on daily doses of an herbal medicine that I had taken for lyme, and changed her diet to 2 cups a day of this food.  She is COMPLETELY healthy now.  The difference in her health is different as night and day.  Even the lumps she had are gone.  This food even smells great.  She loves it and I have heard testimony after testimony of long-lived animals who eat this food.  My dog is now 9 years old and acts like a puppy. Two stars, really?  Wow. 

  • InkedMarie

    I really think you need to do some research because a vegetarian diet is not species appropriate.

  • Mike P

    Ravi,
    I have a background in plumbing but I can also hang drywall.What’s your point?A dentist can not understand animal nutrition?This place I visited once had loads of books,I believe they call it a library.I would imagine someone could educate themself on just about anything no matter what they have a backround in.So you have a backround in animal nutrition but you may not be good at it.I know people with plumbing backrounds that don’t know the difference between pvc pipe and a garden hose.So what’s your point?

  • Bob K

     Ravi – If you have a better way to compare, rate and educate consumers about specific dog food brands, please share your thoughts.    Please tell us about your background in animal nutrition.   Mike has shared his credentials with us and its more than Dentistry. 

    Since you seem to be an expert, please post here and educate us but also provide links and studies to back up your claims.    Help me how you can make the claim that omnivores can do fine as a vegetarian diet. 

  • Pattyvaughn

    Might I suggest that instead of wasting your time here that you put it to use on your own website to educate people on what you believe is the proper way to feed dogs.  You might be doing the world a huge service.

    I’m not as uneducated as you assume, but that is beside the point.  I know several vegans that have dogs.  Three of them had enough problems with their dogs on a vegan diet that they decided to feed a more species appropriate diet,  two of them have gone all the way and feed raw, one is on a meat based kibble.  All three of them have had such vast improvements in their dogs inspite of being sickened by what they are feeding their dogs, that they have decided that yes, dogs need meat.  The other vegan fed dogs that I know range from doing just fine to kidney disease, IBD, and a few other diet related diseases.

    I am aware that dogs can live on a vegan diet, that is not in contention.  They do best on a diet rich in meat sources.  You’re the one here who said wolves are carnivores, well dogs have a digestive tract IDENTICAL to the wolf.  Go study a little more biology and animal nutrition, so you can tell me why dogs don’t need the same diet as wolves.

    Talk to you later.

  • Ravi

    Patty, it’s unfortunate that you were unable to comprehend my post. The idea of one “appropriate diet” for dogs is nonsense. Dogs are naturally scavengers/small prey animals with a very long history of an omnivorous diet. As such, it is perfectly healthy to raise them as vegetarians, if the owner wants to do that. If you were to study biology, you would know that bears and raccoons are in the same order as dogs, and they too are true omnivores (unlike cats which are indeed obligate carnivores and should not be subjected to a vegetarian diet).

    I have a background in animal nutrition, so it is very sad that you are comparing your personal opinion to my facts.

    I am deeply disturbed by the comments I am seeing on this thread, as well as the website author’s own biases  (you may notice that his education [dentistry] is not in the appropriate area to be making the claims he is making).

  • Pattyvaughn

    There are rabbits and guinea pigs in shelters needing homes too.  You should not get a pet that you are not willing to feed an appropriate diet to regardless of your beliefs or diet.  There are many vegitarians and vegans that feed their dog appropriately because it is the right thing to do if your going to own a dog.

  • Ravi

    To some posts below (and the original post)-

    Wolves are carnivores, yes, but dogs can safely eat a plant-based diet. If they are meeting requirements for calories, complete proteins and vitamins, there is nothing wrong with their food source.

    It is truly shameful that so many of you here are ignorantly declaring that vegan or vegetarian individuals should not adopt dogs as pets. Do you have any idea how many pets are homeless, wasting their days in kill shelters or otherwise in need? And THIS is how you react?

    Regardless of your own diet or beliefs, repeating propaganda and stereotypes doesn’t do any favors for anybody.

  • Marie

    Wow, my original post was about a year ago.

    Everything I’ve said is completely backed by science – and I’ve never ever ridiculed someone for eating vegan, but I’ve been ridiculed by vegans for eating meat.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Why would vegans get a carnivore for a pet?  There are plenty of perfectly nice herbivore pets to be found.

  • LabsRawesome

     Hi SMJ2, I have no problem with people being vegetarians or vegans. It’s when they try to make a dog, which is a Carnivore, into one that I don’t feel it’s right. Oh, btw, people aren’t fat from eating meat.  It’s all the high carb foods, junk foods, and just over-eating in general that cause weight gain. A high protein- low carb diet will help anyone lose weight.

  • SMJ2

    It is amazing that you talk about how one-sided and negative vegans can be as you sit here on your pulpit and bash vegans in one of the most judgmental and personally offensive posts I have ever read. Your ‘meat’ evolution statements for humans lack any discernible science, but I’ll ignore that since all I would really like is for you to realize the irony in your incredibly offensive post. Saying ‘I mean no offense’ is a classic maneuver from someone who is well aware that what they just said is highly offensive, but is too immature to just come out and stand behind it.

    Maybe the reason that the *long-term* vegans you spoke of are bitter and aggressive when you question their eating habits is because they have had to defend themselves from a barrage of meat-eating (look-how-manly-and-healthy-my-overweight-brethren-and-I-are) culture enthusiasts who come at them with aggressive and offensive remarks every time the topic is raised.

  • Dog Food Ninja

    thanks john. Hopefully I’ll be back on later with some horrifying information about soy. Buy right now I’m just using my stupid phone with a broken screen and broken keyboard lol

  • Johnandchristo

    Three cheers for the ninja

    He does not post as much anymore 

    but when he does I enjoy!

  • Dog Food Ninja

    I’m sorry Jo, but a few millennia does not change mDNA enough to make a vegetarian out of a natural carnivore. and even besides that point, corn gluten is not biologically appropriate for any animal that exists. It is a hot mess of free glutamic acid, antinutrients, and kidney ruining hard to process low bio available protein.

  • Jo

    I appreciate your detailed review of Evolution dog kibble.  However, I find that your statement regarding a “dog’s natural carnivorous bias” lacks any scientific credibility. Considering the myriad of changes that dogs have experienced throughout their social integration, any claim regarding a “natural bias” seems unreasonable.  

    On a personal note, I have been feeding my dogs this kibble for a very long time.  Two of them are about 15 years old, and they are very healthy.   

  • Ron

    I’ve been feeding my dog Evolution foods for many years. She’s quite healthy for an old dog. People think she’s much younger than she is. Keep up the good work, Dr. Weisman. Those who think dogs (and even cats) can’t be healthy on a vegan diet but still have an open mind about it, should read the book, Obligate Carnivore, available at vegancats.com.

  • Ron
  • Rebecca

    Thank you, Shawna! 
     
    I love taking pictures. I’ll attach a couple of action shots of Ginger and her buddy playing. Your foster puppy Tipsy is so adorable snuggled right in there with the toys. :)

  • Shawna

    What a beautiful family you have Rebecca!!!

    I must say — you are quite the photographer!!  I love all the picutes but am especially fond of the one with Ginger’s reflection in the water!!  Nice shot!!

    This is my fave picture (of mine) of all time I think.  This is my foster puppy Tipsy IN the toybox :).  Tipsy had a neurological problem and couldn’t walk in a straight line.  She didn’t know she was not perfect though.  She just ran everywhere she wanted to go :)…  She was one of my all time favorite foster dogs!! 

  • Rebecca

    Thanks, Toxed2Loss. Like you said, hopefully it will be cleared up soon. At least now that I’m a member, I can edit my posts if they don’t come out right.

  • Rebecca

    Thanks! Here’s some pictures of Ginger the dog, Casey the cat, and Willa the horse. :)

  • Toxed2loss

    Morning Rebecca :-)

    Glad you were able to get logged in. Most of my problems with Disqus, come from my operating system. I’m on my iPad, for disability reasons. Disqus and iOS 5 aren’t very compatible…
    So some of your problems with return spaces could be due to your operating system interface with Disqus as well. What ever they are, post about them, here. They techies working on this site have been great. The ones that I emailed from Disqus direct, didn’t appear to “read” my email for content. I got stock answers. Hopefully the techies, like Ryan will get it cleared up quickly. :-)

    >

  • Shawna

    You are very welcome!!  Glad I remembered :)  Usually I only remember dog food stuff :) hee hee hee — seriously though, that’s true :)

    CUTE dog in your avatar!!!  Now that you are a memeber you can post pictures (that we can enlarge so we can actually see them).  When you create a post there is a little plus sign and the word image in the lower left corner of the posting box.  Pictures have to be under a certain size so if it doesn’t work, resize the picture and try again :)…

  • Rebecca

    Yay! It worked! Thank you again!

  • Rebecca

    Thanks so much, Shawna! Let’s see if that worked… :)

  • Shawna

    Rebecca ~~ okay, I think I figured it out :)

    When you set up your profile you have to use a different login name as your name is already in use (as you know).  I had to use the login name of Shawna.  BUT, under the “Profile” tab I add under “Full Name” just Shawna and I think that is what allowed me to post as Shawna again.. 

    It should recognize you by your email address too and “merge” all you comments (guest and new account) under the one login.

    If I’m wrong I’m sure someone will let us know :)

  • Rebecca

    Thank you. When I posted a minute ago, I didn’t get an error message.

  • Rebecca

    Morning to you, too, Shawna :) 
     
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Pitcairn. I agree with you. 
     
    Don’t worry that you can’t remember. It’s no problem! Like you said, maybe someone will see this and post. :)

  • Ryan

    Sorry about the confusion, we’re working on this and will have it fixed shortly

  • Shawna

    Morning Rebecca :)

    I’m still getting the system error too — UGHH.. 

    Pitcairn — I think he is a wonderful holistic vet but I plead with people not to follow his diet recommendations :)…  He writes in his book that his reason for his heavy on grains stance is for the health of the earth not for the health of our pets..  I admire his dedication to our planet etc but not enough to risk the health of my dogs..  I’ll find other ways to help the planet :) 

    Dr. Becker mentioned she studied under Dr. Pitcairn — but doesn’t agree with his diet recommendations either..

    I’m not sure of the benefits to logging in however I know there are some as Mary Lou and Toxed have discussed it before.  Other’s helped me to be able to use my name — maybe they will see this and post.  I don’t remember what they had me do.  Sorry I can’t be any help at all !!! :(

  • Rebecca

    Oops, I accidentally posted twice. Disqus said there was an error when I tried to post my comment the first time. So I tried again. I guess it actually went through both times.

  • Rebecca

    Hi Shawna, 

    I’m not a member of the Healthy Pets forum. I’ll check it out. Thanks for showing me the “About Karen Becker” page, it was interesting. What do you think of Dr. Pitcairn? I read his book, and was very surprised that he included grain in his pet food recipes and encouraged feeding pets some vegetarian meals. Do you know if he, too, changed his stance? I have a couple questions about posting on here. When I type returns they usually don’t show up. I don’t know if you would have any idea why this happens? I typed returns in this post so I’ll see if they show up… The other question is what do you think is the best way to log on disqus? I have been logging on as a guest, which is fine, but I would like to have a profile pic. If I log on with facebook, I have to use my full facebook name and my fb profile picture. If I use disqus, I have to change my username because “Rebecca” has been taken. Maybe I’ll just keep logging in as a guest. Sorry for asking so many questions you probably don’t know the answer to – just thought I’d ask in case. :) Thanks!

  • Rebecca

    Hi Shawna, 

    I’m not a member of the Healthy Pets forum. I’ll check it out. Thanks for showing me the “About Karen Becker” page, it was interesting. What do you think of Dr. Pitcairn? I read his book, and was very surprised that he included grain in his pet food recipes and encouraged feeding pets some vegetarian meals. Do you know if he, too, changed his stance? I have a couple questions about posting on here. When I type returns they usually don’t show up. I don’t know if you would have any idea why this happens? I typed returns in this post so I’ll see if they show up… The other question is what do you think is the best way to log on disqus? I have been logging on as a guest, which is fine, but I would like to have a profile pic. If I log on with facebook, I have to use my full facebook name and my fb profile picture. If I use disqus, I have to change my username because “Rebecca” has been taken. Maybe I’ll just keep logging in as a guest. Sorry for asking so many questions you probably don’t know the answer to – just thought I’d ask in case. :) Thanks!

  • Shawna

    You are welcome Rebecca :)

    You are familiar with Dr. Becker :).  Are you a member of the Healthy Pets forum?  Dr. Becker has mentioned her vegetarian diet a couple times on Mercola Healthy Pets but also very briefly brings it up on her clinic website.  She writes “After tagging along with humane investigators to veal and chicken farms, I became a vegetarian”  http://www.drkarenbecker.com/meet_us/meetkaren.htm

    Dr. Marty Goldstein authored the book “The Nature of Animal Healing” and mentions being a vegetarian in the book.  In the book he feeds and recommends grains but since writing the book he has changed to a grain free stance :)..  He used to be featured on Oprah regularly and has a radio talk show on Martha Stewarts sirus radio program.. 

    As I said, you are in very good company :)

  • Rebecca

    Hi Marie, 
    Thanks for your thoughtful response. No, you didn’t make me uncomfortable, I just hoped you would not think all vegans have the same attitude as Dean or deprive their pets from species-appropriate food. Thanks for your kind words! :)

  • Rebecca

    Hi Shawna, 
    Thank you for your very kind reply. I like Dr. Karen Becker too, but I didn’t know she is a vegetarian. I’ll have to look up Dr. Martin Goldstein, I haven’t heard of him before. You sound just like me – crying when a squirrel gets hit. Its not pathetic! At least you’re not on the other way, that is, not caring at all! :)

  • Marie

    Hi Rebecca,

    I applaud you for doing the best thing for your pets, and I sincerely hope I haven’t made you feel uncomfortable in my earlier posts. That was not my intention. I’m glad to hear you do consume some dairy occasionally, I think that will help you in the very long run. I find it refreshing to meet a vegan that doesn’t project their own nutritional morals on their pets. I wish you all the best on your vegan journey. :)

  • Shawna

    Rebecca ~~ EXCELLENT post!!!

    You are actually in a very elite crowd.  My two favorite vets are vegetarians (not vegan though) and feed their dogs raw, species appropriate diets — Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Martin Goldstein (two of the finest holistic vets in the US)… 

    I tried vegetarianism myself for a year but my body rejected the idea.  Also rejected a more Atkins like diet too :)..  My ideal is small amounts of animal protein with my meals but mainly a plate full of veggies — yummm..

    I am also, like yourself, an advocate for animal welfare!!  Toxed and I were talking on the phone one day and I told her I wouldn’t be able to hunt my own food without doing something like saying a prayer and thanking the animal for nourishing my body before the kill (if I could kill at all — I cry when I see a squirell get hit by a car.  It’s pathetic really!!! :) 

    Anyway, thanks for your refreshing attitude and post!!

  • Rebecca

    Hi Mike,
    Sometimes when I post, spaces don’t appear between my sentences even though I thought I typed them. Do you have any tips? Thanks.

  • Rebecca

    Hi Marie & Toxed2Loss, 
    I’ve been vegan for a year – so I’m not a long term vegan, but I plan on being vegan for the rest of my life for ethic and health reasons. (However, I do occasionally eat some dairy if I’m eating out.) I believe it’s fine for people to eat animals, but in my opinion, factory farming is unacceptable because it’s cruel and unhealthy for the animals. I became vegan when my parents read Dr. Fuhrman’s “Eat to Live” book and we decided to change our diet. (I highly recommend the book, and if you’d like, check it out on Amazon. Here’s link to it: http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Amazing-Nutrient-Rich-Sustained/dp/031612091X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326670671&sr=8-1. Sorry, I know the cover is kind of tacky, but it really is an interesting book even if you’re not interested in changing your diet.)Anyway, I didn’t want you two to have 100% negative experiences with long term vegans so I wanted you to know  that I feed my dog and cat species-appropriate meat-rich diets. They eat TOTW, Bravo, and Primal.One more thing, Toxed2Loss, I have seen from different posts you’ve made that you’re Christian and you believe the six day creation. Me too! Very neat!

  • John

    Sorry, I messed up that post. I just wanted to agree labs are awesome.

  • John

    just wanted to labsrawesome, labs are awesome

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Mari, I agree. Eric should be put under the jail for all the stuff he did. And this “dog food” is not species appropriate.

  • Mari

    Wow – there are a lot of “sidebar” comments below that sidetrack from the main point of this page – to post about Evolution Diet Dog Food.  Just to keep it “fresh” – here is a re-post of the news article about this food’s creator, Eric Weisman.  This info alone should be enough to scare anyone away from his pet “food”.  Mike S. – glad to read your reply that you have banned Eric from further commentary on your site.
     
    SOURCE ://www.startribune.com/local/east/124013829.html

    A Little Canada man faces nearly five dozen charges for allegedly running a holistic veterinary practice and doling out human medical advice with no license or formal training.
    Eric H. Weisman, 59, was charged Wednesday by the Little Canada city attorney with 29 counts of practice of veterinary medicine without a license or permit, nine counts of practicing medicine on a person without a license or permit, 17 counts of contempt of court, two counts of animal cruelty and one count of violating a city ordinance.
    Weisman owned and operated Evolution Diet Pet Food and National Health Consulting Service and hosted a cable public-access show where he espoused his treatments and sold supplements and vegan dog food he formulated, according to charges.
    Weisman held a chiropractor license until 1998 when the Minnesota Board of Chiropractic Examiners revoked his license. He has no professional license of any kind, and the Board of Veterinary Medicine obtained an injunction in 2003 barring him from practicing veterinary medicine or making claims about the pet food and supplements he sold, the charges said.
    According to the complaint, Weisman consulted with people suffering serious diseases, including cancer, and provided them with treatment protocols. He charged for his services.
    He also brought his cat to the University of Minnesota veterinary lab for a necropsy, concerned that it had suffered from kidney failure and cancerous lesions, according to charges. But a university veterinarian found the cat had died of pneumonia and hadn’t had proper nutrition.
    Weisman provided nutrition programs and consulted with callers on his TV program, “Health Now.” Although he did state that he was not a physician or veterinarian, the complaint said, he continued to say he could help pets or people with diseases, and that he specialized in cancer treatment.
    In other documents he wrote to clients, he said, “I am a former human physician.”

  • Marie

    Melissa, the part about those poor cats made me very angry indeed. That’s straight up abuse for denying clearly-needed vet care.

  • melissa

    Michelle-

    I was getting the same impression-too funny. It became crazy when Jesus, Gandi etc were brought into the mix, and I do believe that when I laughed the loudest-

    However, serious point here-How can one have a cat that is walking on its joints due to broken bones and not notice it? Further, if the University of Minnesota is correct in stating that several cats have been brought in over the years with lack of nutrition, how can one not immediately think its a food issue??

  • Michelle

    What’s with you two crazy dudes? lol :) You guys talk like ur in a cult or something. Funny stuff, thanks for the laughs.

  • Marie

    Toxed, LOL, here’s hoping that’s the case!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Antonio, I keep getting side tracked, but I wanted to say thanks for the biblical support. My favorite is the Passover lamb. ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Weeeelll, if pup is roaming free and unrestricted, GFETE, whose to say he isn’t helping himself to the neighbors cat chow or a rodent or two? That prey drive is pretty strong. Now wouldn’t that be a hoot! Sorry, naughty me! LOL :-)

  • Marie

    No problem! :)

    Yeah, it’s his dog that’s suffering the most. At least Dean could make that decision for himself, his dog has no such choice. :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Marie, no offense was taken. :-) You are absolutely right. I completely missed the dog’s plight in this. Shame on me. Thank you for enlightening me.

    I do want to point out, I wasn’t suspecting chemicals as his problem, just comparing it to the vegan nutrient imbalance/deficiency you pointed out. Which I was also unaware of… Thanks, you’ve shared some very valuable insights with me today. ;-)

  • Marie

    Toxed,

    No doubt that excessive chemicals can alter behavior. However, I don’t feel that sorry for Dean, I feel sorry for his dog. He made the choice to go vegan, and in the thousands of interactions I’ve had with people that have been vegan for several years, I find that they are judgmental, irrational, and make emotionally-charged arguments that have no factual standing. You cannot speak logic with a *long-term* vegan because they will NOT except anything contrary to what they do. They confuse their serious B-12 and REAL amino acid deficiency with passion. They have injured themselves nutritionally, and it makes them worse the longer they do it. Now, of course this can be accounted for in nutritionally complete *vegetarian* diets, diets that actually utilize animal products in some form.

    Human beings, in our modern form, evolved because our ancestors started scavenging the carcasses of other predators. Meat gave us our reason, meat gave us our logic, and meat gave us our intelligence. Meat allowed our brains to get so big. When we deny this essential macro nutrient, we’re slowly killing ourselves mentally and, further down the line, physically.

    Are *all* vegans like our friend Dean? No, of course not. I would never say that. But all I can go off is personal experience, and that experience has been 100% negative in regards to long-term vegans.

    I mean no offense by this post.

  • monkey

    I think we should downgrade this food to 0 stars.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Dean R Deziel (also using the name “Jesus”)… After reading the many comments you posted here today on this Evolution Diet Dog Food thread, it’s apparent that you are working with deceptive intent (or as a fraudulent individual using multiple identities) from the same computer IP address.

    Because you have abused your privilege to post on this website, you are no longer welcome here and are now blocked from further posting.

    Your most recent comments identifying yourself as “Jesus” have been removed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Marie,
    I felt sorry for him. It’s no fun to be that beyond reason. With several classes of chemicals, like round-up, they can give you rage and make you unreasonable. I have to say, I haven’t had any experience with long term vegans. I didn’t realize that they exhibited those same behaviors.

    Before we identified my condition, I’d get exposures at shool from other people’s plug in air-fresheners. I was a teacher. They made me like that. Fragrance always has pesticide. I would spiral out of control about 8:00 p.m., the same evening. It was horrifying. It was like you were watching yourself do it, and you couldn’t stop it. Luckily we figured it out. That was when I was given my diagnosis. The plug-ins tend to make people aggressive.

    I actually talk to a lot of TIs that go through it, following exposures. They can usually be calmed down when you point out that they are not making sense. The sad part was that Dean couldn’t be. His accusations were all over the place. :-(

    I sometimes wonder if the chemicals are contributing to some dogs aggressive behavior. I have no research, it’s just a hypothesis, based on personal experience and thousands upon thousands of contacts…

    I started thinking about it when he Columbine shootings were happening and I realized how extremely fragrant high schools were. They are the most toxically fragrant locations, next to church on Sunday morning. Food for thought.

  • Antonio

    While there’s nothing wrong w/ being a vegan, the attitude displayed here by “Dean” was probably not the best example. Dean it’s great that you can run 30-50miles a day, I personally would rather hop in my SUV and drive that distance :), “no I’m neither fat nor lazy”, but I don’t see any reason to run such a long pointless distance just to say I can run 50 miles :). I happen to be a flexitarian, meaning I rotate cycles of eating vegetarian/vegan/ and eventually back to a balance of meat and veggies, and I hope to my peers on this blog that I never come off as arrogant or otherwise w/ my dietary opinions regarded humans nor animals. And since it was mentioned that animals shouldn’t be eaten from a biblical perspective I won’t even begin on why that comment is taken wayyyyy out of context, even Jesus fed the multitude w/ fish & bread.

  • Marie

    Toxed, I doubt he’s gone. But oh well. I wish he’d eat a steak or something before returning.

    I thought it was funny he accused us of being fat and out of shape because we don’t agree with him. While I am most certainly out of shape, it’s because I don’t exercise, not because I eat meat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Marie, I’m glad you did. ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Hmmmm,…. You think he’s really gone? I wonder what his neighbors think of his dogs ‘running free with no restrictions?’

  • Dean R Deziel

    I’m not pushing my diet on anybody…..you all just feel guilty because of what your doing…harming another being…..that’s all…..and I bet 1million to one most of you writing this are fat and out of shape…..no offense to fat open minded people….some don’t have a choice…..my dogs are doing just fine running free….no restrictions….seem pretty happy to me…..p’.s I feed them the food I eat also, whenever they want! Hey! why don’t some of you hater’s meet me for a 30-50 mile run sometime…. I feel good physically and mentally, look up pythagoras belief system, see what it says about being able to be accepted into his school and the reasonsa why………………………………never back again

  • Marie

    @Toxed,

    No problem. There is a huge difference between the two, and I wanted to make it clear I knew what that was, lol. ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Dean,
    Tens of thousands. Is that what you thought? I didn’t think so. You have no idea who your talking to.

  • http://BrothersComplete.com Richard Darlington

    Dean

    I have no argument with your position on food or the huge advantage of nurturing an open mind – only your presentation. You don’t present your position with reason and facts or experience – just emotionally charged nonsense.

    You make your arguments based on extremely theatrical and emotionally charged vague assertions that are so extremely vague as to be practically useless. For instance you said:

    “If we feed them what we think is good for them meat wise look what happens….they end up sick and suffering from the same ailments as the humans who don’t know how to eat for themselves”

    While I absolutely agree that a healthy vegetarian diet would probably keep YOU healthier much longer it does NOT follow that feeding our (carnivorous) dogs meat is what has made them sick. In fact there is a substantial body of evidence that feeding dogs the grain and potato that is used in dog food has contributed to their diseased states much more than the meat (assuming meat sources are not from Rendering plants). The conclusions you come to are far too simple based on your premise. It’s not that simple and it’s deceptive to present it as though it is.

    In the book “The China Study” which is the largest study on food ever done (involving millions of people) it is postulated that the results are at least 99% accurate and the book makes a direct and undeniable link between eating meat and sickness. However, it has since been learned that it might well be the COOKING of the meat that creates a substance that causes most of the problems and those who eat raw meat do not suffer the same fate. There are other things that have come to light as well but that’s enough to make the point. So making broad, sweeping generalizations is really a duplicitous way to attempt to convince others of your position.

    Dean your last post is beyond absurd – that you don’t see that is very revealing. You start with the generalization, “maybe there are things that are beyond proof….” (which I assume is meant to discount my request for “reason or facts”) and you go on to connect that non sequitur to a long rambling post that accuses me of just about everything which I assume you thought you would distract me from the point of the discussion and “shame” me into simply agreeing with your vague and wide ranging claims.

    According to you:
    I don’t want to create my own destiny,
    I have a huge ego,
    I’m comfortable being in a state of pain and suffering,
    I live in a state of mind bondage,
    I have no insight,
    I don’t want to help others,
    I don’t want to try new ways of doing things,
    I don’t want to hear how to be a better me,
    I condemn people who want to help others
    I condemn people for having a gift you say I don’t have,
    I live in a state of fear,

    That you think this is how to “reason” with someone who actually CAN “think for themselves” is pathetic.

    I have been dealing with an ex wife who is a pathological liar, and so delusional that her destructive behavior, where my 8 year old son is concerned, is a source of sadness and frustration that sometimes gets the better of me – like today. So I thank you, and Mr Weisman, most kindly for posting such nonsense that I was able to do a couple of nice long ranting vents – it has been most cathartic…and please don’t take it all too seriously (this doesn’t apply to you Mr Weisman). Where ever you are is where you’re meant to be, and you’re no where near as off center as my ex wife.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Sandy,
    Soy,and flax have estrogen analogs. Soy is loaded with genistein, and several researchers say flaxseed has higher phytoestrogens than soy.

    Soy is a potent carcinogen and leads to senile dementia 5 years ahead of your peer group. It causes premature aging, can lead to ED, and gynamastica, in males (growing breasts). There’s more…

  • Marie

    “.I just don’t understand why so many people think that all these corporations and govts have your best interest in mind….news for you ….they don’t…..”

    I totally agree. Too bad I wasn’t talking about that at all. Or most of what your reply was.

    Now go operate on that poor soul.

  • Dean R Deziel

    TOxic lazy…….question? How many lives have you saved or changed for the better ? That’s what I thought……stability is over-rated anyway….

  • Dean R Deziel

    Marie, How can you say that when you don’t even know me….the way i’m writing might seem strange to some…yes….not sugar-coating in society is also condemned……there partaking of dairy has nothing to do with them being chill…..there’s nothing wrong at all with being passionate about what you believe in……and what you know works…..alot of great ideas have gone away in history…because there was no money to be made from them…..for the special interet groups that is…….I just don’t understand why so many people think that all these corporations and govts have your best interest in mind….news for you ….they don’t…..that’s all i’m trying to convey……by the way….I don’t know how to say this but ..question…..if you or a loved one was being accosted to put it nicely…..who would you want nearby….a chilled out vegetarian…..who doesn’t want to get passionate? Or a violent bad -ass vegan…..who would take care of the situation for you? and save your life…and that of your loved ones?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Dean,
    Yes we do, but you haven’t bothered to check that out! You just jump to baseless conclusions and make wild accusations. You have not engaged anyone here in reasonable discourse…

    I’m feeling sorry for whoever it is that you’re going to operate on. I wouldn’t want someone with your temperment (as presented here) operating on me or my critters!!!

    You are not presenting yourself as either rational or stable. IMO

  • sandy

    An answer to the bad foods: cave man diet. Ground rules of the Paleo Diet:
    1. All the lean meats, fish and seafood you can eat.
    2. All the fruits and nonstarchy veggies you can eat.
    3. No cereal.
    4. No legumes.
    5. No dairy products
    6. No processed foods.

    If one can find free range, grass fed, grass finished meats, organic fruits and veggies and wild caught seafood, the better. No fake foods or frankenfoods aloud.

  • Marie

    Actually Dean, it’s not to my chagrin you’re doing what you’re doing. I don’t care if you want to feed your dog a crappy vegan diet. That’s your business. But what gets to us is when you parade your vegan religion (and yes, that’s what it is) and then condemn us when we don’t convert to your nutritionally and scientifically unsound ideas on dog food.

    You are killing your dog, and you’re messing yourself up. But, as I said that’s your business. Mike makes it abundantly clear he favors meat based foods due to dogs being a carnivorous animal. I know you don’t like the fact that your best furry friend needs meat, but maybe you should have just gotten a rabbit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Thanks for pointing out the difference Marie, I also know many vegetarians that eat dairy and eggs, that are respectable representatives of their beliefs.

  • sandy

    Vegans eat a high amount of GMO’s and the grain/legume/vegetable oil based diet is high in omega 6, which is highly inflammatory, and high in lectins and antinutrients. A grain based diet, which is highly processed, also promotes insulin resistance which causes alot of metabolic syndromes. And soy and flax has some form of a hormone it it, too?

  • Dean R Deziel

    Many of you are missing something…..do any of you out there have any solutions? Any products that are better alternatives to the bad foods? AT least Eric….and I are trying to solve the problem….to your chagrin I see…..but at least trying……it seems so easy to criticize and condemn when your not making an effort yourselves to help find some answers, and maybe offer something up…..with that said….I have to go operate now….thank you for your time….

  • Marie

    Dean sounds more vegan than vegetarian. I know many vegetarians that are rational and chill, namely because they eat SOME animal products like dairy and eggs. No offense Dean, but you sound exactly like all the long-term vegans I have met. Anyway, have a nice day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    P.s. Dean,
    Got this from National Geographic,
    “But a recent study found DNA from monkeys and small forest antelopes called duikers in the feces of wild African western lowland gorillas in Loango National Park in Gabon.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Dean,
    Perhaps if you ate animal fat, loaded with omega 3 DHA, your thought processes would be less chaotic. Look it up. Gorillas are omnivores. They, too, eat meat. Tsk, tsk. All your comments about scripture passages were taken completely out of context. “Text without context is pretext.” you have no idea what the original meanings were if you are cutting and pasting them to (erroneously) imply those things.

    Again, you foolishly and viciously attack another person who is addressing you logically and calmly. It seems to me, based on you as an example, that vegetarianism leads to irrational, violent outbursts… Where’s your resplendent health and superior thought processes now?

    Good grief! You assume a lot of things you know nothing about. Most of what you said was baseless vilifying. You were right about one thing. I eat meat! But then God said to… You lied by omission there… So many lies!

  • Marie

    Dean,

    For God’s sake stop abusing the period key! It’s actually starting to anger me more than than any of the nonsense you’ve been spouting.

  • Dean R Deziel

    Shawna, I hope you read my original posts to antonio……it says it all right there….in a concise manner of course…..I didn’t say mass produced products…..genetically modified products…..that’s exactly what i’m saying is horrible for consumption…..

  • Dean R Deziel

    I would like to debate this all day….however I do have a life…..to serve others….my dogs have been patient enough…..I hope you all find what you are looking for……peacefully…….but with passion…..

  • Dean R Deziel

    I see another meat eater…toxed2loss…i’m not talking about chimps… I said gorillas… humans eat each other when they’re starving also…..are chimps gorillas?Since your talking about jesus…..you just by -passed the whole point…..you see but you don’t see…you hear but you don’t hear lest you be converted……maybe if you converted to vegetarianism you would start to evolve more spiritually…..stop killing animals for consumption….isn’t that a commandment? Thou shalt not kill? why do you want to kill so badly? for your own selfish appetites….you obviously don’t understand…..you don’t care about the pain and suffering that you cause another living being….as long as you satisfy your desires….typical….that’s why you condemn eric and myself….. I like how you just looked up your information for your last thread …wow…that’s nice….why don’t you research and study it for years ….live the lifestyle….and come back when you understand or comprehend what it is your reading….The difference in us is…I lived both lifestyles…..and can speak from experience where as you haven’t….so your comments and opinions are empty…thanks for your in-put though….p.s. jesus was human…..he got angry,he bled, he sufffered,he died remember……what did he say on the cross just before he gave up the ghost? don’t look it up!!!! and also” do unto others as you would others do unto you”……it doesn’t say just humans……

  • Shawna

    Dean & Eric,

    I can honestly say that I understand where you are coming from. I’ve watched the video of the baby, male chicks and the veal calves and force feeding of geese and ducks for foie gras etc etc. It’s truly appalling!!!!!!!

    However, I have to disagree with you one what is killing Americans today — it is not any one particular type of food but rather the over processing of our food (including kibbled dog foods). We were not and are not designed to get our nutrients from synthetic sources. Our dietary fats aren’t coming from lard or coconut oil but rather something completely man made (margarine). That’s just the tip of the iceberg.. Traditionally, some ate primarily meats, some primarily vegetarian and others primarily fat (the inuits as an example) and all did quite well on their respective, unprocessed diets.

    Take soy and corn — fermented soy products have been a staple for several populations. However unfermented soy was not a big part of any diet from my understanding. And genetically modified soy is, as some say, a frakenfood. Same goes with corn. Vegetarian foods are not, as you would have us believe, always healthful. ESPECIALLY when they’ve been processed to the point of nutrient damage requiring synthetics to make up a good portion of the nutritional content.

    Although I don’t think dogs (and especially cats and ferrets) should be fed a vegetarian diet — I could, at least, support your plight if you did not offer, or feed, the same overly processed, synthetically fortified, by-product (“corn gluten meal”) laden, inferior content (soy — quinoa would be a much better option) junk foods as other kibble manufacturers…

  • Dean R Deziel

    Lies and deception Richard? Con -Artists? What could I possibly gain from the above dialogue? I am not motivated by anything beyond trying to help others feel better, along with their pets……that’s it ….nothing more….of course you can disregard anything i’ve said that’s fine….however, believe it or not I was looking out for your best interests as well as your pets……………..I will stop trying to share….thank you for confirming once again that many humans do not want to live a healthy,happy,life….free of pain and suffering……………sincerely……p.s. please look up one of the many books I possess…The GERSON THERAPY. Max(charlotte gerson)…look what happened to him…thank you!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Eric & Dean,

    I went back and read all your comments. You two are obviously passionate about your beliefs. But that’s just it, that’s all you’ve got. You didn’t fact check some of the most glaringly obvious things you said, and your logic is flawed. First off, Mike, declares who he his and all the premises of this site. You went off on him like an enraged hor on Rodeo Dr, without even checking any of his reports or disclaimers. Shame on you, who purports to follow the ways of peace! Then Eric, you make several fraudulent statements about plant based proteins. They are in fact different, and not complete sources of nutrients for meat eaters… Just did all that research for another thread…

    Then there’s your casual tossing in of gorillas with herbivores! You best get a T.V. And watch a few Animal Planet and National Geographic episodes. It’s amazing to me that anyone in this day and age doesn’t know that primates are omnivores!! They eat meat, even their own group members, when theymcan get it. Good grief, kindergarteners know that!!!

    Finally, you espouse being a free thinker… Oh, brother! It’s free thinkers that walk off of cliffs believing they are unbound by the ‘paltry’ tennets of gravity, and fall to their death! It’s ‘free thinkers’ that ignore the laws of society and rob, maim and kill… Jesus was not a free thinker. He was the obedient son of God. Unless you’re talking about a different Jesus?…

    Anyway, everything you’ve typed is showing us who you really are, and it’s not good. eric, If you want better reviews, stop whining and improve your food!

  • Dean R Deziel

    By the way Richard what is the Truth i’m trying to obscure? That what americans have been eating for decades is killing us,killing our pets?Making us sick?…..there is alot of proof for that in all the hospitals and cemeteries around our country…we all know that…..what’s your solution then Richard…keep doing the same things that aren’t working? Do you think we’ll have a different result…..that doesn’t sound like it makes any scientific sense at all…..

  • Dean R Deziel

    Sandy it’s obvious that the standard american diet isn’t working…..how long have we been experimenting with that now? Why not try a different approach? Doing the opposite for once….if you want to continue supporting your local Doctors that’s fine of course….odds are that they will have you in debt and in the grave before you really deserve to be there…..medicine is fine…yes….but let’s eliminate the source of the disease….not take drugs for the symptoms….This also pertains to our pets…..

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Eric Weisman… I’m truly sorry you have chosen The Dog Food Advisor website to use as your own personal platform to vent your anger and frustration with “TV news, newspapers and police” — and now, even the very provider of this free and open forum you now find yourself using to promote your own personal agenda.

    What could I possibly have said to cause you to see my review as a personal “attack” on your company? And to respond with such venom?

    Are you disappointed with my 2-star rating of your product? Is that it? Or is it the fact so many folks don’t buy your vegetarian pet foods to feed their carnivorous animals?

    Eric Weisman, I have never written a single disparaging word about you — or your business.

    Just because you believe your own meatless dog food design is better for dogs than animal based recipes doesn’t give you the right to expect others to obediently agree.

    This website shamelessly favors pet foods that are designed to supply a species appropriate meat-based diet to dogs.

    Unfortunately, your products do not meet those ideals — and so it defies logic to see how you would expect your product would be entitled to receive a better rating than it does.

    As a fellow pet lover, I do share your skeptical opinion of the meat packing industry, especially its cruel and unethical treatment of the very animals it ultimately profits from – not to mention the long term effect to the environment of feeding animal products in the first place.

    So, I find it particularly disturbing to read your completely contrived, baseless and slanderous accusations that my website is funded by the meat industry (or any other third party, for that matter).

    The modest income generated here is 100% the direct result of my own efforts and hard work and has always been candidly described in my Disclaimer and Disclosure link found at the bottom of every page of this website.

    Eric Weisman, the Constitution of the United States grants you the right to free speech. But that right does not include committing damaging acts of libel or slander.

    Your accusation is nothing but a blatant lie. And if you continue to post such pathetic fabrications here you will be barred from further participation.

  • Dean R Deziel

    Richard, you are very funny…..maybe there are things that are beyond proof….would you agree? No scientist has all the answers either….look at charles darwin….missing evidence in all the right areas…how convenient……scientists admit that there are many things that they just can’t prove…and that they can’t understand…..interesting…..the proof of something is in the end result …..sometimes you just can’t figure out why it works….but it does….just like a bee….horrible aerodynamics…..shouldn’t even be able to fly…..but it does…..and we as humans could never emulate that…..we can’t even emulate a bird in flight…..we try but to no avail….nature is nature….how can anyone understand it all? I’m sorry that you feel that way about what i’ve said ….whenever I go to a doctor for a check-up(no thanks honey) they can’t understand why my cholesterol is 100 or how on a meatless diet I can thrive and run ultra-marathons….they’re baffled….why is that richard? What are you and the others so afraid of? feeling good? being free from mind bondage? you don’t want to think for yourselves, create your own destiny? The people I mentioned were perfect examples of free thinkers being squelched for trying to help others….Richard, maybe people(I believe we all are) were born with gifts of insight that you don’t possess and that you don’t understand….why is that so unbelievable to you……that someone can see, hear, or undertstand something that you don’t…..what’s horrible is….that with this gift they are trying to help others and you are condemning them for it……maybe people with these gifts should let others suffer……why wouldn’t you want to try another way? your ego must be too big….you don’t want someone,something telling you how you could be a better you……I understand your fear…..your comfortable in your pain,suffering……however there is a better way…..how do you like that one richard? It’s ok to be a helpless human stuck in this beautiful creation of a body that is poisoned by the foods you eat,the society you live in, the t.v that you watch…etc etc….my only wish is that you would be open enough to try …..you don’t know what you can do until you try……no fear richard….no fear…..

  • Dean R Deziel

    Antonio, I never said that this company or product is above scrutiny….believe me….I am the same as others when it comes to scrutiny,scientific proof,emperical evidence…..I can only say ask Eric these questions….if you don’t like what he say’s or if he doesn’t prove enough to you…..i’m sure you can find other companies willing to divulge the information you are looking for…..the only way to really know as consumers is to plant and grow our own food…and prepare our own food and our pets foods….I know this doesn’t sound realistic to many people for practical reasons and many other reasons but that is probably the only way to ever truly know …..we can only truly trust ourselves….if we don’t want to do this I guess we have to have some trust in the people who are trying to do this for us……..thank you for keeping my mind working….and for asking those questions……I like to be well informed also…..I only know as much as the information that I look up also…only when we live something, and have experienced it firsthand can we know about it…..that’s why i’ve been using myself as a human guinea pig for 28 years….it’s the only way to know about ourselves, our bodies, and the truth of the products that we and our pets consume…….for me it’s been a liberating experience in many ways….healthwise, spiritually, and also even financially…..peace to you…and your pets…

  • http://BrothersComplete.com Richard Darlington

    Dean R Dezeil and Eric Weisman

    I was trying to stay out of this as others here will be able to deal with (totally disregard) the utter nonsense in Eric’s posts as well as yours well enough, without my help – but your comment…

    “Look at what happened to Gandhi,jesus,socrates, martin luther king jr, anyone who wants positive change…”

    …is just too absurd to not address – as if the cumulative comments by you and Eric aren’t absurd enough. Comparing Eric to these 4 people is beyond ludicrous, and a pathetic attempt to give validity to statements, by you both, that are designed to obscure the truth rather than expose it.

    You both seem to be of the opinion that saying something alone is enough to give it validity without it being connected to some kind of reality that is at least marginally recognized as valid by others in the sentient world, and preferably backed up by facts (like ingredients that aren’t horrible at best) that can be corroborated by others.

    You have come to the wrong place if you are trying to sell snake oil to the uneducated masses or pretend that there is a noble reason to poison helpless dogs with what this food is composed of. You criticise the large corporate manufacturers (rightly so) but trying to sell “dog food” that is composed of the absolute crap in your ingredient list by spouting faulty philosophy and pretending to be enlightened forerunners of a new era in dog nutrition is even more distasteful in my opinion.

    It’s manufacturers like you that give manufacturers a bad name – and I take absolutely no pleasure whatsoever in having to say that. No wonder the people here were all over me for months and months – I can hardly blame them when they see manufacturers like you crawl out from under a rock.

    Your attack on Dr Mike is thoroughly pathetic and patently untrue (as is almost everything else you two have spouted) and a tactic that con artists often use to distract others from seeing the lies and deception behind their own behavior.

    You would be wise to just quit before you really rile up the natives here – they’re relentless.

  • sandy

    Yes, humans have been contaminating and manipulating our food lines for quite some time. Is the corn, soy and oats and potato in Evolution certified organic or genetically modified? We’ve contaminated everything and it’s sad. We are making ourselves sick.

  • sandy

    Yes, the proof is the the quality of life and longevity (and maybe a necropsy as actual scientific evidence). In 10-15 years I’ll get the results of my life long experiment with my dog.

  • Dean R Deziel

    For one….they’re not in their natural environment…..we have domesticated them….taken them away from that environment….2) If we feed them what we think is good for them meat wise look what happens….they end up sick and suffering from the same ailments as the humans who don’t know how to eat for themselves….I’m a vegetarian, as are my pets…..to be totally honest whenever I go any where and people find out my age they can’t believe it…..and that I run ultra -marathons,do manual labor for work..on and on…..my dogs get the same treatment….even at the vets office….they can’t believe how nice my dogs look,and act…how mobile, and disease free for their ages…..this from conventional vets…..they( always) bring it up, I don’t ….then of course when I tell the vet that my dogs are vegetarians they either tout it or …say oh, oh, eventually it will catch up with them…..I don’t know what to tell you.. the proof is in the quality of life and the longevity….just give a try…..with knowledge of course….don’t go in blindly…..I know this sounds removed from your question……if the food we were feeding the dogs or pets wasn’t contaminated by all of our human waste…..I am sure the animals would thrive also…..but it is contaminated…..so what to do…..avoid it if possible…..just like we do as humans…..feed them the most pure, nutritious food we can find ……..

  • Antonio

    Dean, since you believe that this manufacturer is somehow above the scrutiny of all others, how about informing us where the plant based ingredients are sourced from for this product :),, you know some of the inside information like facility name, address, etc.. so we can make a conscious decision and rightfully decide if this product is right for our pets?

  • sandy

    The beasts of burden and non burden are allowed to eat their natural diet also. Why can’t dogs?

  • Dean R Deziel

    excuse my typos…..eric, you also know that the masses never really want true good change….they love living their lives secure in their pain and misery….lives of quiet desperation….even though they have a choice to be open minded and try something new….they choose the former. Look at what happened to Gandhi,jesus,socrates, martin luther king jr, anyone who wants positive change ….the masses would rather believe in never-ending war,confusion, consuming, appetite driven lives….they don’t want peace…they wouldn’t know what to do with it…they don’t know how to look inside themselves, to search for their own answers, without outside influence….so that their hearts, eyes and minds will be open and cleared….so that they can see through the veil of deception that these big govt’s and corporations are hiding behind for their own benefit….if they could only see that their best interests are not what these entities have in mind…..they care about one thing, themselves……we are consumers to them…that is it….if they want us to be healthy, it’s so we can consume their products longer, if we get sick we also consume their products longer until we die from consuming their products….no need to worry their kids will take over..the consumption,like they’ve been taught inundated with all this propagand,advertising…….either way they just want the consumption…the money….the masses to subsidize their wasteful lifestyles…..and too stay dependent on them to continue the money machine……again…I’m speaking as a person who has lived both lifestyles……meat -eater consumer……vegan…non consumer…..never in my past as a meat eating consumer did I feel free,peaceful, and that I was doing something consructive for our world not destructive……the only way to know is too try something new….and give it a fair chance….just as long as it took you to pollute your bodies and minds with the former lifestyle….no regrets….no pain ….no suffering for yourselves or others……

  • Antonio

    I think that animals like dogs can survive and even thrive on vegetarian diets, but insinuating that all flesh processing facilities are garbage and that plant based diets are some how superior is basically “the pot calling the kettle black”. I think vegetarian based pet foods pose their own risk same as those of flesh origin. Remember the pet food recall of 2007? The problem wasn’t w/ the meat based products going rancid it was due to a grain (plant based) product namely (corn) becoming toxic. I think it’s up to the owners to find out what works best for their dog and and their concious and choose what’s best for them, no one should base their decision on a strong opinionated argument from a pet food CEO or otherwise, but use actual trial and error.

  • Dean R Deziel

    Eric, one thing…you know these people don’t understand anything your talking about ..and they don’t want to….they’re already convinced and nothing you say, do…or prove will convince them otherwise they are probably the same no brain people who believe we have to go to war every week to keep our country safe….it’s toom late the propaganda machine has already indoctrinated them….it’s easier too believe in something bad than good I suppose….my words can’t express how much I support your product and your belief system….I love your products and my dogs love your products…..Eric did not compensate me in any way shape or form for giving my testimony about how well my dogs have been thriving since they’ve been consumning his product…..oh yeah one more comment….haters…why is it that all the beasts of burden are vegetarians…i.e. horses, oxen,mules,donkeys….non beast of burden….deer,gazzelle,rabbit, etc etc….all great endurance also gorilla’s, elephants,rhino’s, hippopotamus…who can match their strength?..

  • Eric Weisman

    I am glad to see that people that read this website are so quick to believe the fraudulent charges that were brought against me and my company. The Cops and the TV News forgot to mention that both I and our company have probably won more awards for pet food improvements and design then any other company in the US. I know that this country is very corrupt and that corporate TV News , Newspapers and Police reflect that corruption. It seems to me that people are often tried and convicted in the press. It is then up to the the real victim in a case like this to prove himself innocent. This case is as bogus as the day is long. Of course, days do get shorter in the winter. Evolution diet pet foods are among the very best and safest pet foods on this planet. The reason websites like this one exist, is to attack companies like ours for helping animals live longer and healthier lives. This website is most likely funded by the meat, poultry and fish pet food industry. The author is attempting to mask his identity behind an objective sounding name and attacking good cruelty free plant based ingredients so that he or they can push inferior meat and unsafe diseased meat, poultry and fish products that are used in virtually all non vegetarian pet foods. This is how I perceive this website. I would like the editor to disclose who is funding this website or where the funding for this website comes from and what kind of actual evaluations the author of this website has actually done on Evolution diet if any. If the editor is truthful, he may tell you who is funding the site and if the site has done ANY FIELD EVALUATIONS AT ALL. ALWYS follow the money trail and you will probably find the reason why websites do tell the truth. This website will not discuss the fact that diseased animals and parts go into other premium and organic pet foods in the US and Canada. Factually, the flesh based pet food industry is the garbage dump for the slaughter industry and always has been. The flesh pet food industry is yet another that big US and Canadian Corporations get rid of their waste and make profit from it. This website appears to be yet another promoter of the flesh industry and all its violence and sickness. Please look 8 paragraphs above to my former comment to read from objective sources that tell about what really goes into flesh based pet foods in the US and Canada and ask this so called expert who funds this website.

  • Mari

    Wow – just two days after my post questioning the scariness of this dog food, its creator and its website does the newspaper article appear. My instincts were right on.

    They should throw this guy in the slammer and force him to eat his crappy pet food. And his jail cell walls should be wallpapered with the necropsy reports of his pets.

  • Scott A

    This guy needs to be fed cardboard and gatorade for ten years and lets see how he fairs.

    Terrible story of a bad person and bad pet food, lets all hope this product goes away with him.

    I’m glad he got busted.

  • Jonathan

    “According to the complaint: Weisman brought his cat of 10 years to the University of Minnesota veterinary lab for a necropsy (animal autopsy), concerned that it had suffered from kidney failure and cancerous lesions. But a university veterinarian found that the cat had died of pneumonia and had not received or was unable to absorb proper nutrition. It had no signs of kidney failure or cancerous lesions — they were scabs caused by the animal walking on its joints due to broken bones, the vet found. It was one of many cats Weisman had taken to the lab since 2006 that did not or could not absorb proper nutrition, the charges said.”

    Really? the vegan-fed carnivore wasn’t absorbing nutrients? No way! I’m shocked.

  • Meagan

    Wow my jaw dropped when I read that. Thanks for posting that Ellen

  • Jonathan

    Wow. That’s interesting Ellen… And in response to Eric’s post from the other day, cats are obligate carnivores and dogs are carnivores with omnivorous capabilities. Sorry. Game over. You can’t argue with evolution and you can’t concoct a better food than nature can produce. I find it offensive to even use the term “evolution” in the title of this food.

  • Ellen C.

    Please check out this link…http://www.startribune.com/local/east/124013829.html before you purchase this dog food.

    Eric H. Weisman, 59, was charged Wednesday by the Little Canada city attorney with 29 counts of practice of veterinary medicine without a license or permit, nine counts of practicing medicine on a person without a license or permit, 17 counts of contempt of court, two counts of animal cruelty and one count of violating a city ordinance.

  • Mari

    I know someone feeding Evolution Diet to his dog. And his dog is ALWAYS hungry. Poor thing. I suspect that his dog is not getting enough nutritional and biologic value in his food so I researched the manufacturer online. The company’s website, to me, appears super sketchy. Its owner touts himself as a ‘Dr of Health Sciences’ (what is that?!) with ‘multiple awards and accredidations’ (but doesn’t name them). There are typos all over the website which, I hope, includes the following statement: “The procedures mentioned are intended to cure, treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. The FDA has not evaluated these procedures.” SCARY! Perhaps Evolution Diet meant to say “Not” intended, but, see for yourself, the statement above is a direct copy/paste.

    Bottom line is this food contains high concentrations of wheat, corn and soy – three HUGE canine allergens. While they may be healthy and nutritious for humans, I agree with the previous posts that evolution has always pointed to canines as being carnivorous. So why on earth would you call this dog food “EVOLUTION DIET”???

    I slip my friend’s dog some tasty dehydrated beef liver treats now and then in an effort to express my sympathies.

  • Eric Weisman

    For 22 years Evolution Diet has been making plant protein pet foods. We have had good results in terms of health and longevity in dogs, cats and occassionally ferrets. We have sworn statments and testimonisals from clients that have used Evolution Diet in preference to conventional premium and organic meat, poultry and fish based foods. Many people have had much better results using Evolution Diet and prefer it because it does not contain diseased animals and animal by products. Refer to the sources below. The pet food industry relies on the use of animals and parts that can not be used for human consumption. Animals that go into pet food are too sick and parts like heads, guts including fecal matter, organs, tails, road kill, baby male chickens that are ground up alive and egg layer chickens that are too diseased are the ingreients that become US and Canadian Pet Foods.
    It has always been my position, that one could do no worse then what already goes into meat, poultry and fish based pet foods by making complete PLANT PROTEIN PET FOODS. EVOLUTION DIET FOODS HAVE ALL THE SAME PROTEINS, VITAMINS AND MINERALS AS THE BEST PREMIUM AND ORGANIC FLESH BASED PET FOODS, BUT USE CLEANER SAFER, CRUELTY-FREE PLANT PROTEIN SOURCES. MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT THE SAME NAME PROTEIN FROM A FLESH SOURCE IS Different THEN THE ANIMAL SOURCE IS A FALSE ASSERTION AND AN UNSCIENTIFIC ARGUMENT. The source I can provide for this issue are our plant based protein profiles that are very similar to conventional meat based pet food protein profiles
    Evolution Diet has been helping people and dogs, cats and the occassional ferret make the switch to cleaner, safer plant based diets for 22 years. If you would like sworn statements regarding the performance of our foods, please request them by phone at 651-228-0632. This is the best way to contact us for mail inforamtion. Thank you. Sincerely: Eric Weisman
    *Sources:
    1. http://www.bornfreeusa.org/ – Born Free Organization
    2. http://www.foodpetsdiefor.com/ – Ann Martin
    3. http://www.meat.org/ – Paul McCartney
    4. http://www.factory-farming.com/ – Factory Farming Facts
    5. http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture – Union Of Concerned Scientists
    6. http://www.animalfactorybook.com/ – David Kirby

    l

  • Antonio

    No arguments on that one. But speed alone doesn’t mean the animal isn’t just another family member of scavengers like the Hyena who can reportedly run upwards of 35mph for short distance and maintain slower speeds for hours at a time “sounds very similar doesn’t it”. Again I don’t dispute the opinions and facts as most do hold their own weight, I think the biggest problem with pets today isn’t as much diet, but the fact most truly reflect their owners clear down to obesitiy issues, it’s a epedimic in people and pets. We need to focus and put as much energy on excercise as we do on nutrition, Combining the two will definately help our beloved pets THRIVE, don’t you agree?

  • Jonathan

    Also note that a Wolf can maintain a chase for over twenty minutes and is capable of reaching speeds of over 30 miles per hour when sprinting. That would be a wasted ability for a scavenger. Wolves CAN scavenge. But their bodies were designed by evolution to commit acts of amazing violence and their group and individual behavior is adapted for the purpose of hunting. Scavenging would not require such physical abilities or group coordination. In fact, based on your own posted material, the dog evolved away from the wolf partly because it scavenged more. Real wolves in the wild do not used scavenging to make up a significant portion of their meals. They are hunters. Dogs, like wolves, can scavenge, but just think. If they can survive on trash, then they will THRIVE on real meat.

  • Antonio

    Jonathan,

    Great read on the Gray wolf, and while I’m generally not vehemently convinced about anything posted online especially sites like wikipedia that don’t have some type of verification control for the information printed, which basically means any yahoo with internet access can pretty much post anything he/she wants. The article does bring about some interesting points that I copy/pasted here below:

    A study by the Kunming Institute of Zoology found that the domestic dog is descended from wolves tamed less than 16,300 years ago south of the Yangtse river in China.[19] Morphological comparisons have narrowed the likely ancestral subspecies of gray wolf to wolves of the Middle Eastern and South Asian variety.[4
    Although it is popularly assumed that dogs are the result of artificial selection, the general intractability of adult wolves to human handling has led certain experts to theorise that the domestication process occurred through natural selection when Mesolithic human communities began building permanent settlements in which a new ecological niche (middens and landfills) was opened to wolves. These wolves would have formed a commensal relationship with humans, feeding on their waste over many generations, with natural selection favouring assertive wolves with shorter flight distances in human presence, and causing physical changes related to the redundancy of features adapted for hunting big game.[
    In Eurasia, many wolf populations are forced to subsist largely on livestock and garbage in areas with dense human activity, though wild ungulates such as moose, red deer, roe deer and wild boar are still important food sources in Russia and the more mountainous regions of Eastern Europe

    I think the thing that stood out the most was how long wolves/dogs have actually been domesticated eating our waste and other garbage, that info right there pretty much indicates a scavengers lifestyle. But I think I would have to turn a blind cheek if I said I didn’t also realize how much meat these canids consume in their diet, it’s a huge proportion of their diet, both clean and rotten flesh, but I guess that pretty much just points to dogs/wolves being very adaptable creatures and capable of surviving and thriving on most things provided they have adequate nutrition, vaccines and plenty of exercise.

  • Jonathan
  • Antonio

    But looking at this dog food, I’m not sure it would be one I would even call ideal for vegetarian fed dogs. Many of the ingredients are seemingly subpar for a dog food now days.

  • Antonio

    Hmm here we go on on the doggy diet again. Dogs are neither, vegetarian, carnivores, nor omnivores, they are just plain SCAVENGERS like their primitive cousins, the wolf and coyote. Although they typically scavenger meat source proteins, they will however scavenge on most anything that has the most minute digestibility for one purpose and that is survival. I feed my dog a pet food that has meat and grains, but I’m not a absolute idiot, if dogs were pure carnivores, there’s no way some of them would be living as long as they have on products like Dick Van Patten’s Vegetarian formulas as well as the others. And if you google vegetarian dogs you can actually get links to quite a few canines living into their 20’s while eating vegetarian prepared meals from their owners. So that’s not a subject really worth arguing.

  • Jonathan

    Eric, this is the most ridiculous food. No meat and added sugar? Are you serious? Any idiot with a few working brain cells can look at a dog’s (or cat’s or ferret’s) teeth and tell that they were designed by evolution (a term this food wiped it’s butt all over) to eat meat. Plus, what is your grand excuse for the inclusion of synthetic vitamin K? maybe you should rethink a lot of what you believe. I’m the kind of guy that likes evidence, and evidence for meat consumption is written all over a dog… from their teeth, to their digestive track, to their behavior.

  • Bob K

    Eric – I never knew dogs to be vegetarians. A few questions? 1.)Why are all the supplements added to make the food exceed the completeness of a meat based diet? 2.) Can you provide a link to the Scientific studies you reference that show Plant Proteins actually become more digestable as they are cooked whereas flesh proteins become less digestable applies to canines specifically? 3.) Can you provide a link to any University Study or AVMA endorsement of a vegeterian diet for dogs? 4.) Once again – do you have a link or report for your statement, “but a better way to have longer living healthier pets.” specifically applies to dogs. Maybe ferrets or horses this is true.

  • Eric Weisman

    Evolution Diet Pet Foods have been produced for over 22 years. Over those 22 years the various Evolution Diet Gourmet Dry and Canned Moist Foods have “Evolved” and been improved upon. Many supplements are added to Evolution Diet Pet Foods to improve Evolution Diet Protein and Enzyme contents so that these foods actually exceed the completeness of a meat based diet.
    Scientific studies regarding biological availability show Plant Proteins actually become more digestable as they are cooked whereas flesh proteins become less digestable and less available as they cooked. If it were true that plant proteins were an inferior source of protein then Evolution Diet Fed Dogs, Cats and Ferrets would not be living as long as meat Fed Dogs, Cats and Ferrets. Evolution Diet Fed Dogs are living to an average of 15.5 human years, Cats to an average of 17.5 human years and Ferrets to an average of 10 human years. We have numerous reports and sworn statements for large and small Dogs living over 19 healthy human years and Cats living over 21 healthy years on Evolution Diet and this is before our current improvements. Of course, if the grains and beans were really inferior sources of protein, these healthy life expectanices could not be happening.
    If grains and beans are burned during cooking, their nutrient content is destroyed, but if they are cooked in specific times and teperatures that maximize their availability, they are an excellent source of various proteins. Additionally, Plant Proteins have the added advantage of having no steroid growth hormones, antibiotics, animal farm bacteria and virus residuals that come in virtually all meat based pet foods including organic. Up to 30% of feed given to organic animals can and is non organic which means growth hormones and antibiotics at the very least. Non organic feed given to farm animals may include diseased animals, diseased tissue and fecal matter provided it is cooked at FDA Approved temperatures in an FDA Approved Rendering Plant that is speicifically designed to shred and cook diseased animals, parts and fecal matter for animal feed that can not be used for human consumption “directly”.
    It seems obvious to me and our many thousands of Evolution Diet Clients including PhD Nutritionists, Veterinarians, and MD Specialists that our sophisticated and protein complete Evolution Diet Pet Foods are not only a good alternative to what is put into premium and organic meat based pet foods, but a better way to have longer living healthier pets.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Barb… Thanks for the tip on the update to this recipe. It could be a while before I get to it. There are dozens ahead of this product at this time. Manufacturers make no attempt to inform the public regarding their never-ending change of their recipes and ingredients.

    The descriptor “inferior” is not just opinion but scientifically based. Plant protein presents a lower (and inferior) biological value to a dog. Be sure to read my article, “How to Judge the Quality of a Dog Food’s Protein“.

    Hope this helps.

  • Barb

    August 2010
    I believe there is a recently updated formulation of this food. Please consider updating your review.

    Curious how you attach the descriptor “inferior” to plant protein. Is that a personal bias towards protein from animal sources, or an objective indication of the way a dog’s body metabolizes and stores said protein?

  • Saundra Lockery

    I hope you will keep updating your content constantly as you have one dedicated reader here.