Darwin’s Natural Selections (Raw Frozen)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Darwin’s Natural Selections Dog Food earns the Advisor’s highest rating of 5 stars.

The Darwin’s Natural Selections product line lists five raw frozen dog foods, each claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review:

  • Darwin’s Natural Selections Beef and Vegetable
  • Darwin’s Natural Selections Duck and Vegetable
  • Darwin’s Natural Selections Bison and Vegetables
  • Darwin’s Natural Selections Turkey and Vegetable
  • Darwin’s Natural Selections Chicken and Vegetable

Darwin’s Natural Selections Duck and Vegetable dog food was selected to represent the others in the line for this review.

Darwin's Natural Selections Duck and Vegetable

Raw Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 52% | Fat = 22% | Carbs = 18%

Ingredients: Ground duck meat (including bone), duck gizzards, duck hearts, duck livers, carrots, sweet potatoes, squash, zucchini, celery, romaine, parsley, apple cider vinegar (vegetables may vary based on seasonality), organic kelp meal, organic ground flax seed, sea salt, inulin (extract of chicory), zinc, copper and iron amino acid chelates, vitamin E

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.3%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis12%5%NA
Dry Matter Basis52%22%18%
Calorie Weighted Basis42%43%15%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists duck. Duck is considered “the clean combination of flesh and skin… derived from the parts or whole carcasses of duck”.1

Duck is naturally rich in the ten essential amino acids required by a dog to sustain life.

In addition, this particular item is inclusive of bone, which is, of course, an excellent source of natural calcium.

The second ingredient includes duck gizzard. The gizzard is a low-fat, meaty organ found in the digestive tract of birds and assists in grinding up a consumed food. This item is considered a canine dietary delicacy.

The third ingredient is duck heart. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing to us humans, heart tissue is pure muscle — all meat. It’s naturally rich in quality protein, minerals and complex B vitamins, too.

The fourth ingredient is duck liver. This is an organ meat sourced from a named animal and thus considered a beneficial component.

The fifth item lists carrots. Carrots are rich in beta-carotene, minerals and dietary fiber.

The list goes on to include a number of other vegetables.

But since the company mentions “vegetables may vary based on seasonality”, we elected to exclude these items from this report.

However, we do note two important additions

First, we note the inclusion of inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and typically sourced from chicory root.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Darwin’s Natural Selections Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Since this recipe contains a number of quality organic ingredients, we feel compelled to accord this line somewhat favored status as we consider its final rating.

That’s because organic ingredients must comply with notably more stringent government standards — standards which significantly restrict the use of any synthetic pesticides, herbicides, insecticides, hormones or antibiotics.

Just the same, we still need to evaluate the product’s protein, fat and carbohydrate content.

Judging by its ingredients alone, Darwin’s Natural Selections looks to be an above-average raw frozen dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 52%, a fat level of 22% and estimated carbohydrates of about 18%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 51% and a mean fat level of 27%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 15% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 52%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical wet dog food.

Free of any plant-based protein boosters, this looks like the profile of a wet dog food containing a generous amount of meat.

In addition, the company claims all Natural Selections products include free-range meats and organic vegetables.

For those looking to mimic a dog’s natural ancestral diet, Darwin’s makes an excellent choice.

Bottom line?

Darwin’s Natural Selections is a meat-based raw frozen dog food using a generous amount of beef, buffalo or poultry as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

For even more raw diet suggestions, be sure to visit the Advisor’s Recommended Raw Dog Foods summary page.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

02/04/2011 Original review
09/14/2011 Updated (added Buffalo recipe)
11/10/2012 Last Update

  1. Adapted by the Dog Food Advisor from the official definition for chicken published by the Association of American Feed Control Officials, 2008 Edition
  • InkedMarie

    I got lost….does someone have. Dog ith protein losing enteropathy?

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    I think I have a pretty darn good grasp of the use of Calcitriol in kidney patients. This may be new to you but it is old hat to me. : ) Heck I even have a bottle of it on my shelf.

    So yes if the phos is over 6 you treat that with reducing phos in diet and adding binders in and once phos is below 6 you start Calcitriol. The levels used in kidney patients are tiny. In humans, studies have concluded that Calcitiol, as it is used in kidney patients with a history of Ca Oxalate, did not increase stone formation.

    In regards to PLN and Gluten recall the opening statement: “The exact cause or causes of PLN are still unknown.” So AKC is not saying gluten grains are a cause of PLN Based on what is known,i t isn’t that gluten causes PLN but may play a role in the pathology. I think this is a subtle but significant point.

  • Susan

    There are herbal therapy in western as well as in chinese medicine, for kidney failure, which work well. Maria Treben recommends 3 herbs in her book ‘herbs from god’s garden’, the main herb is Goldenrod; i’m confident that you will have great success with herbal therapy.

  • losul

    I would transition them just a little if you still have the old foods, to test them out. Probably no need to do any lengthy transition though, since they’ll be raw and similar, and probably not really necessary to do so at all. It depends on your dogs….

  • Shawna

    My bad, I misread the second statement. It says other phosphate binders need to be started before the calcitirol. So you may be right. Rather than all this speculation, maybe we should wait for a reply from Busters owner.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dolores.musumeci Dolores Musumeci

    I just received my introductory offer of Darwin’s today. I’m feeding my yorkies primal right now, my puppy, 11 months old full raw, and my 11 year old half raw. My question is, do I have to transition them slowly from primal or can I just give a whole meal of Darwin’s? I would start with the same protein they are eating now.

    Thanks in advance.

  • Shawna

    I don’t have time to address the whole post but I wanted to mention the below.

    I read differing info on Calcitriol than what you are suggesting IRIS says.

    “Calcitriol cannot be used in patients with phosphorus levels that are already abnormal. This is a preventive measure more than a treatment.” http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2622

    and

    “Calcitriol cannot be used in patients that have an elevated (greater than 6 mg/dl) plasma phosphorus level. Calcitriol might elevate phosphorus further at this stage, which is exactly what we do not want. In such patients, plasma phosphorus must be reduced by diet, fluid administration, or by phosphate binders before calcitriol can be started.” http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=558&S=0&EVetID=3001962

    Oh, and there was NO interpreting as the article CLEARLY states ” may cause stimulation and thus the production of these antibodies”. I’m not sure how you could interpret stimulation of antibodies against the kidneys as not being a cause?
    I will also note that my vets (yes plural) tried to sell me a whole slew of kd products INCLUDING a Science Diet KD kibbled food… We both know how wrong that was..

  • aimee

    I probably didn’t state that as well as I could have. What I mean is when you multiply the Ca level and the Phos level together you want the answer ( the product) to be less than 60 ( some say 70) to prevent mineralization of soft tissue.

  • losul
  • aimee

    True not all dogs with K/D are uremic, I am very well aware of that.

    On the other hand I think it is a relatively safe assumption on my part that if a dog with renal insufficiency needs a phos binder in addition to a low phos diet to control phos levels it is likely uremic as well.

    IRIS adds phos reduction not until stage 2 (mild azotemia) and Calcitriol is added at stage 3 (mod azotemia) Some Dr’s may add calcitriol earlier in the progression.

    Neither of us know what Buster’s status is. But as this dog was on calcitriol and aluminum hydroxide and a low phos diet I assumed it was in a later stage or renal insufficiency. Of course I could be wrong.

    I’m quite certain asprin is not used to treat blood pressure in dogs, it is used to prevent blood clots in PLN.

    I wouldn’t read that as gluten grains “cause” PLN but I can see that you would interpret it that way. They may be involved in some way in the genetically predisposed individual.

    The one study I know of that looked at this concluded “Although enhanced wheat-gluten sensitivity may be one factor involved in
    the pathogenesis of PLE or PLN in SCWT, this syndrome does not appear to be the result of a specific sensitivity to gluten.”

  • Shawna

    NICE… It is easier, imo, to make the connection between food allergies/intolerances and protein losing enteropathy (protein loss in the intestines). But I don’t think people generally make that connection with the kidneys. Allergic and intolerance reactions can affect any organ in the body though. Whatever organ is genetically the weakest link is likely what will be affected.
    Good find, thanks for posting it!!!

  • losul

    Aimee,

    I didn’t really look into oxalates much is why i asked. The only reference I used which might not be reliable was from Wikipedia.

    Oxalate occurs in many plants, where it is synthesized via the incomplete oxidation of carbohydrates.

    “Oxalate-rich plants include fat hen (“lamb’s quarters”), sorrel, and several Oxalis species. The root and/or leaves of rhubarb and buckwheat are high in oxalic acid.[7] Other edible plants that contain significant concentrations of oxalate include—in decreasing order—star fruit (carambola), black pepper, parsley, poppy seed, amaranth, spinach,chard, beets, cocoa, chocolate, most nuts, most berries, fishtail palms, New Zealand spinach (Tetragonia tetragonioides) and beans.[citation needed] Leaves of the tea plant (Camellia sinensis) contain among the greatest measured concentrations of oxalic acid relative to other plants. However the infusion[clarification needed] beverage typically contains only low to moderate amounts of oxalic acid per serving, due to the small mass of leaves used for brewing.”

    ————————–

    This might be an interesting research paper, if I could read the whole text without buying it.

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00240-006-0035-7
    —————-

    I don’t understand this of what you said, i.e., the 60 figure, and in what ratio, the calcium to phosphorus?

    “I believe you always want the Ca/P product to be below 60 or you may induce tissue mineralization”

  • losul

    Funny, I didn’t know what PLN was, and i had just read the exact same article Shawna. Also this;

    “Systemic hypertension must be controlled. Dogs with PLN should be fed a gluten-free (no wheat) diet that is moderately reduced in protein. Protein sources should come from fish, venison, or other protein source not common in commercial dog food, including chicken.”

  • Shawna

    Not all dogs with kd are uremic though. Audrey has used garlic for seven years. I’d much rather give her garlic than all the drugs to prevent this and stop that.. Just me though :) .

    The same three “meds” could be recommended for high blood pressure. I think low dose aspirin is a common recommendation for high blood pressure in fact. And high blood pressure and kd are commonly seen together. However, I didn’t want to assume it was high blood pressure so I asked..

    Since you brought up PLN, :) I read an interesting page suggesting that gluten grains are one possible “cause” of PLN.

    “Causes of Protein-Losing Nephropathy (PLN)

    The exact cause or causes of PLN are still unknown. However, there is strong evidence that protein-losing diseases are genetically transmitted, but the exact mode of inheritance is not completely understood. In addition, infections and toxic substances may be potential causes. Another possibility is that affected dogs may be producing antibodies against their intestines and kidneys. A food allergy, particularly to glutens (the protein in wheat and other cereal grains such as rye, barley, or oats) in the diet may cause stimulation and thus the production of these antibodies.” http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health/your-dogs-health/disease-information/protein-losing-nephropathy.html

  • Shawna

    Vitamin C is water soluble and most dogs with KD have polyurina so my guess is that C is added to make up for what gets urinated out. I give Audrey extra vitamin C (and B’s) for this reason.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    Looking at the combo of meds the dog is on low dose asprin, omega 3′s and enalapril, made me wonder if this dog has protein losing nephropathy. This is why I questioned moving the dog to this diet with a much higher protein levels and ingredients that may aggravate the Ca Oxalate formation. If this dog is polyuric, the dilute urine alone likely helps with prevention in that respect.

    As you know I’m not a big fan of garlic and even less so in a renal patient as the fragility in the rbc’s is increased in the face of uremia.,

  • aimee

    In this instance I think the Vit C is likely added at controlled level for its anti-oxident benefits and perhaps to compensate for loss. I’m guessing it is a situation whereas some can be good but to much is not so good.

    My point was simply that we are usually trying to prevent acidosis in a kidney patient. So adding things at levels to promote an acid urine wouldn’t be indicated in a system that is compromised in dumping acid.

    In the dry formulation I see potassium citrate is used as the alkaline buffer nothing jumps out in the canned version.

  • aimee

    Hi losul,

    The ingredients I was questioning in addition to beets was yam and squash ( unnamed variety; some squash are high oxalate others are not). Also from the label we really don’t know what seasonal vegetables are being used.

    As I understand it restricting Ca in the diet is not desired for a Ca oxalate stone former, but I was looking at the ratio from an overall solute load level. I was asking for clarification as this dog is on calcitriol (active Vit D) and shifting to a much higher dietary Ca level. What overall effect will this have?? Perhaps only by increased monitoring of the patient through the diet change would we know.

    In regards to my comment on phos, the dog was on a phos binder in addition to a very low phos diet. This led me to think that this dog needs a lot of help to control phos levels so I see it as counter intuitive to grossly increase dietary phos.

    I believe you always want the Ca/P product to be below 60 or you may induce tissue mineralization, and that this is even more important when using calcitriol. If we lose phos control when increasing the phos in the diet. I could see this as problematic.

  • losul

    I get it about suggesting lower phosphorus, and bone or bone meal being very high in phosphorus.

    What I really didn’t get though was that Aimee seemed to be implyng that a higher calcium to phosphorus level, was a bad thing.

    And I was just thinking/hoping that there were much better alternatives than using Hill’s k/d for Buster.

    edit: BTW Johnene, Buster is a real cutie. My previous dog was named Buster, although he was way on the other end of the size spectrum. He was a rottweiler/mastiff mix.

  • Shawna

    Not only to calcium oxalate but to other diseases as well.. David Wolfe has an excellent video out about how calcium carbonate (the kind fortified in the foods we eat) causes heart disease, cataracts, arthritis, bone spurs etc. Simply because our body absorbs large amounts of it but then doesn’t utilize it well.. Calcium citrate, calcium lactate and calcium bicarbonate are all less absorbable but better utilized by the cells of the body.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VEz2Px8QM

    There’s a book I want to read written by an M.D. called “The Calcium Lie: What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know Could Kill You”. http://www.calciumlie.net/about-the-calcium-lie-authors.html

  • Shawna

    I meant to add this but forgot. The dogaware article says this about mineral water.

    “Not all minerals in water contribute to kidney or bladder stones. In several studies conducted in the 1990s, human patients who formed calcium oxalate nephroliths drank a French mineral water containing high levels of calcium (202 parts per million) and magnesium (36 ppm). Nearly every risk factor for calcium oxalate nephroliths improved significantly. The same patients also drank local tap water and mineral water with low calcium/magnesium concentrations, neither of which improved the measured risk factors. The researchers concluded, “The risk of calcium oxalate stone formation can be significantly reduced by consumption of mineral water which is rich in calcium and magnesium.”

    Although they don’t name the water tested, I know that Evian (a “French mineral water”) has the highest amount of calcium bicarbonate of any water tested per Mark Anderson in a “Back to School for Doctors” nutritional seminar.

  • Shawna

    PS — dogware.com has some FANTASTIC info on kidney disease as well.. I used this website (and a few others) to help make my mind up about feeding my kd girl a fresh, raw diet and it has paid off with a healthy, long lived kd puppy.. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

  • Shawna

    Hi Johnene,

    Your little man is ADORABLE!!!.. Bichon’s have an increased risk of calcium oxalate stones as I’m sure you know. There is a genetic factor in some oxalate issues where the “glycoprotein” that prevents the crystals from forming stones is deficient. I would guess that Bichon’s have this genetic predisposition as they are the breed most likely to reform calcium oxalate stones.

    The others are correct that bone is counter indicated in dogs with calcium oxalate stones.. :( Darwin’s also uses sweet potato (in the above formula at least) which is moderately high in oxalates. Because of this I agree with the others that Darwins may not be the best option for your little man… :(

    Aimee is correct that in some cases, but not all, of kidney disease phosphorus should be restricted based on the progression of the disease. If he is handling phosphorus okay however you don’t need to restrict too much and possibly not at all. My pup was born with kd and will be seven next month. I have yet to restrict her diet — she does eat Darwins and other higher phosphorus raw foods.

    I think Dogaware.com is going to provide you with the most help with your baby.. She has a very very thorough and well researched article. And discusses a diet that can actually help dissolve current stones and prevent future stones. The diet is higher in meat at 33 to 40% and uses low oxalate fruits/veggies (the Fuzzerfood diet).

    The article also mentions things like type of water to use — distilled or reverse osmosis as these forms have the least amount of contaminents and more importantly the least minerals. However she also discusses a study where “mineral” water high in calcium and magnesium was helpful. Mineral water is high in a type of calcium called calcium bicarbonate. Calcium citrate (which is easily converted to bicarbonate) has been shown to actually bind to oxalates and neutralize them.

    Calcitriol is a form of vitamin D and added D is counter indicated in oxalate stones? Maybe this form is not a problem?

    Enalapril and low dose asparin — Does he have high blood pressure? There are foods that are actually helpful at lowering blood pressure. Garlic is a low oxalate food that has been studied for its ability to lower blood pressure. It also has MANY other health benefits. May be able to eliminate one of the drugs or lower the amount given when including garlic. For your little guy a quarter to half a clove three or four times per week could be helpful.. DON’T give garlic before surgeries or if anemic however. Anemia can be an issue with KD.

    There are no protein types (beef, chicken or lamb etc) that are high in oxalates or that should be avoided in kd dogs. Unless you need to limit phosphorus due to the kd.

    Probiotics — there are five strains of probiotics that are especially helpful in cases of oxalate stones. Read the below linked article to find the five and then check the probiotic you are giving to make sure it has them all. If not there are suggestions in the article. My fave probiotics are Mercola Healthy Pets (14 strains) or a human product made by Garden of Life called Primal Defense (has probiotics as well as soil based organisms — not sure if it has the five that are the most helpful though?).

    Does he have any symptoms due to the kidney disease—-bad breath, nauseated, depression etc? If so, giving a prebiotic along with the probiotic is VERY helpful. I use a human product called Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber for my kd pup—works fabulously.. Per the web, the acacia fiber that Sprinkle fiber is derived from has no oxalates. I add about 1/16 of a teaspoon to Audrey’s meals as needed. It helps bring the BUN considerably which helps control the symptoms..

    Anyway, you can find some VERY useful and hopefully helpful info here http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html#foods
    Please ask if you have any additional questions etc. There is a fantastic community of people here who are more than willing to help however they can :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    I know so very little about this, Shawna… what you’re saying does coincide with what I read recently, specifically that more highly bio available forms of Calcium were beneficial.

  • Shawna

    I think aimee is suggesting lower phosphorus due to the kidney disease versus the stones.. Phosphorus does add to the destruction of kidneys in SOME kd dogs. Bone, as Gordon mentions, should be avoided in dogs with stones. My guess is it is the type of calcium in bone that is the problem as other forms of calcium have been shown to be helpful.

  • Guest

    I’m not 100% sure why, other than I believe there are studies which showed dogs with Ca Oxalate condtion, either had the condition increase or at least maintained with no decrease in the condition, when fed foods containing raw bones. Shawna may be able to tell you more on this. However, in recent years, I believe it’s not attributed to actual calcium content of raw bones, as a normal to good level of calcium absorption is not at all detrimental to such condition.

  • losul

    Yeah, I really don’t have any idea about the vitamin C. Maybe part of the reason hill’s has it is if the PH is high from the high ca/phos ratio?

    I’m used to discussing with Aimee, we have a mutual respect, at least i hope so, lol..

    I have to go count sheep now, so will check later.

  • Guest

    Again, I’m sure you’re going to get an aimee style response but since I’m online at the moment and read your post, I can’t help but chime in my thought on why this might be the case. I think, (I could be wrong), that Hills still wants to add some type of acidifier (In this case vitamin C) for prevention againts normal UTI’s or struvite crustals. But this is just even more reason to avoid such Hills high cereal carbohydrate unnatural and dry food, and instead, feed fresher, more natural prepared foods for dogs.

  • losul

    Sure chime in. i really don’t know about oxalates in bone. I knew phosphorus levels were. Are they 2 different things, or the same?

  • Guest

    If I can chime in, my understanding is that bone, or in this Darwin BARF based formula, the ground bone is another ingredient considered pro-oxalate.

  • losul

    Aimee, Hill’s prominently lists Vit C in the k/d ingredient list.

  • Guest

    Unfortunately as much as it pains me to agree with aimee, vitamin C should be avoided in Johnene’s dog’s case.

  • losul

    Hello Aimee,

    Beyond the parsley in the formulas, and the beets in the beef and the bison formulas, do you spot any other higher oxylate ingredients?

    I’ve been studying very recently on calcium and phosphorus and their ratios in the diet, so your post caught my attention.

    You say that the ca/phos ratios in Darwin’s are higher than ideal .My understanding may be wrong, but it’s that the ca/phos ratio in Darwin’s formulas (average about 1.5:1) is moderate for an otherwise healthy dog, and that an even higher ratio is beneficial for a k/d dog and with stones, the idea being that the higher calcium prevents excess phosphorus and oxylates from being absorbed and then excreted in the urine. It appears to me that the ratio in Hill’s k/d is about 2.8:1, which is well beyond ANY standards I think.

    I see your point though about the phosphorus levels necessarily higher (by standards, because Darwin’s is formulated for all life stages, rather than those formulated for maintenance. I don’t have the AAFCO standards handy and I’m too lazy to look for at this hour, but I’m just looking at the NRC reccomendations for phosphorus- minimum for puppies is 3 times an adult, if I’m reading this right, I got this out of the book “Unlocking The Canine Ancestral Diet” – NRC Adults .75.grams/1000 kcal NRC Puppies 2.5 grams/1000kcal.

    I think It’d still be best to check the actual level in any food chosen, because even any “maintenance” food could still be just as high in phosphorus, I think

    Darwin’s is a great food, I still feed some. It might not necessarily be the best to use for the k/d k/s dog, but I would explore all options , even if it meant raising the ca/phos ratio above the norm with a high quality calcium supplement, before resorting to using Hill’s k/d, especially for the longer term. JMO.

    Again i might be wrong on some of this, so don’t beat me up, and hang me for it, anyone.

  • Guest

    Hi Johnene, Yeah unfortunately the downside of your cross breed and similar pure breeds or other similiar cross breeds is that they’re more vulnerable to Ca Ox stones than any other breeds or larger breeds of dogs. Part of the reason is that a lot of such breed owners have such small dogs because they live in unnatural environments like apartments and are forced to hold their urine in for longer periods. Of course genetic predisposition is a factor as well.

    You’re on the right track with a BARF style food such as Darwins, because it is a more fresher and natural food than canned or dry food (kibble) but unfortunately, as a pro raw meaty bones advocate that I am, as is Mother Nature, it hurts me to say that such foods that include bones, being ground or otherwise should be avoided for your dog, as should kibble, especially high cereal/grain/carbohydrate ones as they can all contribute to oxalate increase.

    In these type of cases, even I agree with home made or prepared style recipes or food combinations, and this type of case, calls for such! Keep the food fresh and real! Include raw meats (with out bone), including some raw offal for nutrient density. Choose the low oxalate mashed up or finely grated veggies such as broccoli and kale. However, because dogs are carnivorous, and can survive and still thrive without any carbohydrates, and since we’re talking about Ca Oxalate stones, you can do without any veggies to be on the safe side as well as even further minimise such plant based oxalate foods.

    In this case, as a generally anti-supplement believer for generally otherwise healthy dogs with no dietary issues or restraints, I would also recommend supplementing calcium nitrate to fresh prepared foods such as cut up raw meats and offal . This will further aid in oxalate urine concentrate reduction, as well as still providing calcium absorption it otherwise would be missing.

    Keep ascorbic acid or any form of vitamin C supplements and vitamin D supplements for that matter, away from your dog. Ascorbic acid is a good supplement for problems such as UTI’s and struvite crystals, but not Ca Oxalate stones.

    There’s more things on this I wanted to add, but I’m drawing a mental blank at the moment.

    One of the most overlooked facet, not just in general, but also with your dog’s condition (although vets would be negligent if any haven’t included the following in their advice) is a plentiful supply of fresh and clean water, easily accessible to your dog. Especially with Ca Oxolate stones problem!

  • aimee

    Hi Betsy,

    Vit C would be on the “no no list” for Ca oxalate as it is metabolized into oxalate. Also

    “Epidemiologic studies indicated that
    the strongest association between CaOx
    urolith formation and diet was the
    diets’ propensity to over-acidify urine; diets promoting urine pH less than 6.59 were at highest risk.” (From the Minn. Urolith Center )

    Also kidney patients may have problems dumping acid and kidney diets are often buffered to offset this and to assist in the prevention of acidosis in the patient.

  • aimee

    Hi Johnene,

    I’m curious as to why you are starting Buster on Darwins. Glancing through the ingredients they contain some high oxalate ingredients, several of the diets have higher than ideal ca/ phos ratios and since the diets are formulated for all life stages they have between 228 -456mg phos/100 calories ( k/d has 57mg/100 calories).

    At a glance it seems these diets are high in all the things you want to avoid with kidney disease and ca oxalate stones.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    You’re a very good dog mom, Johnene! I know there are others who can chime in about calcium oxalate stones that are very knowledgeable. I was looking just the other day for information regarding foods that are high oxalate foods; this might be a starting point for you: http://www.upmc.com/patients-visitors/education/nutrition/Pages/low-oxalate-diet.aspx. Also, I was reading recently that it might be necessary for you to acidify your dog’s urine. Has your vet suggested Vitamin C to your dog’s diet?

  • Shawna

    Okay for most pups.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I know someone who had problems with their dog when they mixed raw and kibble, but a few people here do it with no problem, myself included.

  • beaglemom

    My dogs had their first taste of Darwin’s tonight… very exciting for me (and hopefully them) given how much I’ve read about it! They haven’t had a problem chowing down on any raw I’ve given them and this was no exception (beagles eat anything!). I plan on doing kibble/canned in the AM and kibble/raw in the PM for now just to keep things affordable. I remember seeing a discussion in the past about whether or not mixing raw & kibble is okay — any final thoughts on this? They’ve been having kibble/canned for quite awhile now and have had no trouble, so I don’t see why kibble/raw would be different… just depends on the pup?

  • http://www.facebook.com/johnenem Johnene Martens

    I have just started my Buster on Darwins. He is a male 6 yr old Maltese/Bichon. He has calcium oxalate stones and kidney disease. He is on Enalapril, Celcitriol, Aluminum Hydroxide, very low dose asprin, fish oil, Vitamin E and milk thistle. I started him on the probiotics and digestive enzymes while he was still on Hill’s k/d. Is there any other supplements I should be giving with Darwins? and is there a certain meat such as beef I should omit from his choices of raw do to kidney disease or stones?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Where do you live? To ship to where I am it only costs $0.37 per lb. to order from Hare – very cheap. You could try My Pet Carnivore – it’s in the midwest. It costs me about $1.15/lb. to order from there (I’m northeast) but may be cheaper for you depending on where you are.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I replied to you in the Village!

  • Name

    Hi,I am looking to order raw ground turkey with bone and or organ meat also.I checked out Hare today but the shipping is $31.?OMG.that seems so high,thats the same cost of my order!Ive checked Darwins but my pug can not have all the vegies and supplements that are in that as she is getting balance it added to her food.Can anyone recommend another online retailer with good shipping?

  • Judy

    Nope. Chula Vista, CA
    Judy Miller, Owner
    Birdie Bazaar
    Your One Stop Parrot & Pup Shop
    http://www.BirdieBazaar.com
    judy@BirdieBazaar.net
    (949) 228-0829 mobile
    (619) 500-5612 store
    (619) 500-5612 fax
    NEW ADDRESS:
    1925 Otay Lakes Rd. #47
    Chula Vista, CA 91913
    Visit my other webstore or Dogs and other pets, including Parrots~ http://www.PupPod.Net

  • Pattyvaughn

    Nope, not me. Not the kind of question to ask someone online when you aren’t identifying yourself, BTW.

  • LittleDarlings

    I know someone with your name from Gotha Fl.
    Is it you?

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Judy, thanks for posting that. It’s nice to know I might have helped you in some small way. Good luck with your pup, she is adorable!

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s probably too late but Patty Vaughn is my name.

  • Judy

    Hey you guys (Inked Marie, LabsRawSome, PattyVaughn, Betsy, and? , have been so helpful to me and all my questions and I am right now placing my first order. End of the order form asks if I want to give the name of someone who referred my so that Darwin’s can thank them (maybe with a treat from their store perhaps?? I don’t know, ) but Marie, Patty, LabsRawsome or Betsy, if you are here and can give me your first and last since name to put in the blank( if I get your answer before I press confirm) you guys were very helpful to me in choosing food and helping me decide on raw, and suggesting Darwins and their new customer 14.95 special–) I cant wait to get it! Now I have to makeroom in my freezer so that I can order the quantity on a regular babsis that gets the 10% discount OH and since taking my dog (see my avitar, Tillie a Cav-a Mo, who was just barely 20 lbs, and sometime 19.5 before I started feeding wet food, and now raw–SHE HAS GAINED 3 POUNDS CUZ SHE LOVES IT SO MUCH AND EATS IT IMMEDIATELY WHEN i SET IT DOWN!! Unlike the NB L.I.D kibble dry I was feeding her (that he would avoid until very late and was sure nothing more tasty was coming her way–she NEVER ate her dry NB LID when I set it down, and when I dog-sat my neighbors 2 dachshunds, I couldnt even feed Tilie at same time her NB LID dry food, cuz she wouldn’t eat it right away and just graze a little at a time and the other 2 dogs would woof Tillei’s down, so that is when I started soaking it in homemade chicken broth ( and luckiy was in my 2 month process of reading everything on this site, and I would then top of the broth-soaked kibble with Vital roll (wet, which Till DID like and ate right away, so that I could feed all 3 dags at same time. Now I am feeding raw, it refrigerated wet food until the Darwins delivery gets here. was easy peasy transitioned quickly after a month of feeding broth soaked kibble topped with and refrigerated wet foll food until the Darwins delivery gets here. : I got reduced Natures Instinct raw venison patties and NV raw frozen medallions because it was marked half price cuz the “buy by date” was the following day after I bought it- he loves this too, but it did have ice crystals and looked a little greenish gray around the edges of the patties,; the medaliions had none of that ecept did have ice crumbe (possibly defrosted and refrozen? Anyway< I think I will stick with Darwin's, since from everything I read it is of excellent quality and shes just one small dog so I don't think it is going to be all that expensive for me with the 10% discount for ordering a regular recurring order of 40 pounds at a time. And I'm sure it won't have these issues ( ice crystals and chunks of ice and greenish gray edges)…unless my fridge freezer goes out (knock on wood) also, while waiting for the Darwin's delivery, added little refrigerated FreshPet ( ( it's available at Vons locally (Safeway) in a refrigerated case and it is on sale this week for Vons Club members ('m sure the FreshPet is still overpriced for what it is?? Anyway-if one of you who helped me decide on raw and on Darwins can give me your name I will list you as who referred me at Darwins (you can email it to me at judy@BirdieBazaar.net rather than publically post your full name, if you prefer. Hurry, cuz I want o get my order in to Darwins asap! cant wait to get it. (GEESE- you'd think I was gonna eat it I'm so excitied lol

  • InkedMarie

    Ah…wonder if they’re planning that for dogs?

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s their new cat food, I got a free sample with my last order.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Awesome, James! Thanks for the heads up. I’ll definitely look for it.

  • InkedMarie

    Darwin’s has rabbit now? Can’t find it on the website.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi James
    Funny that you should mention that. That’s exactly what I did yesterday and today. I mixed half and half and my picky cat ate about half of hers, the other cat quickly took care of that. I’ll try backing it down to 25% and see what effect that has. You are completely right, it is texture. I’ve noticed that with these two before with canned food. What’s really strange is I thought that they would greatly prefer the texture of Darwin’s, it’s much smoother and they like extra water added to the Hare Today and pate style canned foods. Cats! Can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without ‘em.

  • james P

    Betsy
    I will have a prescription diet for heart health available and it will be fish based. Look for it in your vet’s office end of summer.
    James P

  • james P

    Patty
    Probably a texture issue. Do me a favor and mix a little of Darwin’s Rabbit in with Hare today, and see if that makes a difference. Over time gradually reduce the Hare today. Just a thought. Hope all is well
    James P

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m slightly disappointed. My cats won’t try their Darwin’s. I’ve been giving them whole prey grinds from Hare Today and that seems to be what they prefer, they rejected My Pet Carnivore too. Maybe they like the hair and feathers.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yes, they are cud chewing herbivores. Like deer, they have no upper teeth in front, but instead have a specialized gumline that is hard and textured. They can graze on grass and hay, but strongly prefer leaves, stems, and bark.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Dumb question Patty, but here goes…

    I can picture goats rotating their jaws when they chew with wide flat teeth, right? So, goats are herbivores, right?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Goats are browsers, they eat leaves and woody stems. They are excellent for natural land clearing. They eat plants and weeds that other animals don’t eat.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Goats are very persnickity eaters, they just happen to eat plant that other animals don’t eat. My dogs love goat, mutton, and rabbit.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I avoided tuna for the longest time (even though I love it) because of the mercury concerns then my grocery store started carrying this brand of tuna called “Wild Planet.” It has 62% less mercury than the leading brands of canned albacore. It also has 5.5 X more omega 3′s as the other canned tuna brands. So I’ve started eating tuna salad again about once a week,

  • Shawna

    Hi Betsy,

    That’s actually a. really good question! We didn’t have goats. Just cows and chickens.

    I could go for fish depending on what type of fish is used. I already have access to salmon and sardines. Tuna is high in mercury. Land based fish are often quite toxic etc etc.

  • Shawna

    Color me intrigued!! Can’t wait to see them!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    I was really curious to hear what your preference would be, Shawna. I wondered about the goat… it certainly is a novel protein. I wonder how palatable it would be to dogs? I’ve certainly never eaten goat ~ but, well remember my sister tried to ride a goat when we were kids and the goat wasn’t happy about it. I sort of imagine goats as bottom feeders of the farm. I know they eat anything… what sort of diet would a goat be fed that was later going to end up in my Darwin’s?

  • sandy

    Have you tried an occasional whole sardine? I get some that are 3 oz so that is one perfect sized meal. And then an occasional turkey neck or duck neck or beef/pork/lamb rib? That way you can still stick to Darwns but offer something different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ken.nierenberg.1 Ken Nierenberg

    I would like to see all the different proteins for my pugs. I cannot use chicken because one little guy is intoleratant to it. I currently supplement Darwins from another source but rea;lly would like to stay with one vendor.

  • Shawna

    Hi James,

    I’d like to see goat if we can only choose one. Next would be rabbit then fish.

  • Pattyvaughn

    They all sound so good, but I’m with Betsy, fish first.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    So hard to choose, James! It seems like the protein source that would round out your current offerings and appeal to my desire for a heart health diet (especially for my Cavalier) would be fish.

  • james P

    Monkey, It’ll happen. What would you like to see:

    Goat, Lamb, Fish, Venison, Rabbit

    Just curious as to what meat sources you would purchase..

    James P

  • james P

    Yes, Patty. I hope your kitties like it. As you can see it is a whole new formulation. Chicken & Turkey will follow suit in a few more weeks. (Already formulated, just whittling down old supplies)

    Actually, I will be introducing 4 new “prescription meals” (available only through your veterinarian), it’s a project I have been working on for quite some time. I am very thankful for the input from some of the most recognizable holistic vets in the country!.

    Stay tuned– & Happy Easter you you all!

    James P

  • Pattyvaughn

    Cool. Right now I defrost it a pound at a time, so I do the unmarked side first. I won’t mind not having to pay attention to that detail. I haven’t complained about my little issue because I really need to defrost my freezer and see if the problem goes away first. I don’t know when that will happen.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Call Jim and ask.

  • losul

    thnx. I guess they’re going to keep us in suspense

  • monkey

    They will be introducing another protein source for dogs sometime later in the year. Not anytime that soon :(

  • losul

    You should let them know. I told them my only very minor complaint was, that how they come in 4 8oz packages attached together and the labeling was stretched across all four, instead of on each, so that when separated,, 2 of the 8oz packages no longer had any identity what variety they were. They told me that was something they were working on.

  • losul

    I’m going to have to place my order again within the next couple weeks. Didn’t someone say they were working on something new for dogs?

  • Pattyvaughn

    My Darwin’s comes from PA, and it has always been great!!
    If I have any complaint, it’s that the plastic packaging is just slightly too thin. I always get small holes in the wrapping due to the ice in my freezer.

  • Pattyvaughn

    This time when I placed my order, I ordered some cat food too. I received my order yesterday and was pleasantly surprised with a free sample of their new rabbit cat food, so now they have 3 flavors to choose from. I can’t wait to see what else they have coming out.
    And as usual, my order arrived frozen solid.

  • InkedMarie

    I can attest to the freshness of Darwins. I’ve said since I first got it that it is completely different than the Stella & Chewys, Primal and Nature’s Variety raws that I have fed in the past. Darwins looks like real meat. It is real meat!

  • James Pendergast

    Hi BCyr,

    Thank you for posting your concerns. It provides us an opportunity

    to open direct dialogue and talk them through.

    While the quality of the ingredients is clearly one of the most important factors in choosing a pet food, it’s not the only one. The condition of the food when it reaches the consumer (dog ‘s bowl) is equally important.

    Quality raw diets, even when handled well, have three to four month shelf lives (at most). The traditional pet food distribution system-manufacturer to distributor to retailer to dog owner-is not geared for getting foods to consumers in that length of time. That’s why many raw diet manufacturers who work within the traditional distribution system give their foods a one-year or more shelf life, well beyond the ideal limit.

    Darwin’s unique approach of making and delivering its meals assures the freshest product anywhere. We obtain our ingredients directly from farmers and ranchers on a just-in-time basis, immediately grind and freeze our meals, and ships them directly to your door, so that they arrive within 3-4 weeks of harvest (west coast customers around 3 weeks, and east coast customers closer to 4 weeks. It usually takes about 7-10 days for us to freezer truck our meals to our PA location).

    We believe you can visually see the difference. Our meals have the natural color and retain the fresh smell of the ingredients. Store-bought frozen foods are often brown or gray, signs that some of the fats have oxidized ( gone rancid) from long-term storage and.or improper handling.

    I hope this helps your concerns, and if you have any additional questions, please give us a call.

    James Pendergast

    Darwin’s Natural Pet Products

  • BCyr

    I am concerned about my Darwin’s coming from PA and the quality not being as good as food from Seattle.

  • http://twitter.com/Miznoone Miz

    Thanks for the tip on sardines and eggs! I thaw the Darwin’s packages right side up. About 1 in every 4 has some leakage, so far. Not a huge deal though – very glad I took the plunge.

  • InkedMarie

    Mine leak all the time but since i defrost in the little container they sent, I don’t care and I dribble the blood over the food.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Are we talking about chicken eggs or quail eggs? :) lol Whenever I ground an eggshell I get 1 tsp. powder (I use large cage free organic eggs from the store and fresh eggs from my friend’s farm). Too much calcium for me to add back in, however I’m not worried about the 100 mg. phosphorus throwing anything off.

  • aimee

    I don’t think Mother Nature screwed up at all… but then again I look at things from a different perspective.

    The developing chick draws on the calcium from the shell for its development. If the ca/ph ration in a chick is 1.2:1 than using the ca/ph number you provided the chick needs to draw about 90 mg from the shell. It seems to me if you draw nearly half of the Ca out of a shell ( using your figures) the shell will be very weak and not able to protect the chick.

    On a practical level as I look at a large egg shell and a 1/8 tsp measure I don’t see any way that all that shell is going to fit into my tiny spoon. : )

    When taking numbers from websites I find a lot of variation “Each whole eggshell makes about
    a teaspoon of powder, which equals about 1,800 milligrams of
    calcium.” http://yorkieviews.com/homemadefood1.htm

    Form a data based angle all data point to HDM figures: Ca in shell 2.2466 grams
    http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-industry/articles/the-egg-shell-case-t398/p0.htm

    “Most good quality eggshells from commercial layers contain approximately 2.2 grams of calcium in the form of calcium carbonate”
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm013

  • http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/ Shawna

    I really don’t think mother nature would screw up that badly HDM..

    If we look at 1 large egg on nutrition data website it says it has 95.5mg of phos and 25.5mg of calcium.

    The sources I read, like dogaware.com and nutritionist Lew Olson, say that 1/2 teaspoon of ground egg shell has 800 to 1000mg of calcium (with a small amount of phos). However one large shell is the equivalent to about 1/8 teaspoon. One eighth teaspoon would be equal to about 200 – 250 mg of calcium.

    This is a little off but I think other things need to be considered here. Both are generalizations and likely taken from very different sources. A factory farmed egg (and shell) has a very different nutritional value than a farm raised, naturally fed egg. Also older hens lay eggs with less nutrients and weaker shells than do young hens. If comparing I think it is important to compare apples to apples (so to speak).

    I add the shell back in if feeding more than 20% of the diet — which sometimes I do. But I make sure to feed the shell and eggs from the same sources as much as possible.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    http://wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/phosphorus/eggs/

    http://www.moderndogmagazine.com/articles/diy-eat-eggshell-powder/28465

    If you’re just feeding an egg once or twice a week it probably won’t hurt anything to feed the shell (the membrane is great for the joints) – but if you’re feeding it any more than that I’d leave out the shell. Once in a while I give my senior his egg with the shell, but generally I feed them without the shell. I save the shells and use them to balance out meals without bone.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks HDM, I’ve been told the opposite so many times that I don’t know what to think, but I’ve never found cal/phos levels for an egg. Gotta admit that I’ve never looked very hard.

  • Pattyvaughn

    My Amazon loves a little cheese as well. I haven’t tried giving him my dogs veg/fruit/berry mix, but he does love his own, as well as a little chicken or fish. And I wouldn’t have self edited “killing 2 birds” my bird likes human flesh as well as anything and I’ve considered it.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    It’s not necessary to add the shell when you’re feeding an egg and, in fact, if you’re adding the egg to an already balanced food I wouldn’t suggest adding the shell. An egg has about 100 mg. of phosphorus and 1 eggshell has about 1,800 mg. calcium. You’re going to be seriously throwing of the calcium to phosphorus ratio of your food if you feed an egg with the shell. However, with only 100 mg. phosphorus, a plain egg without the shell likely won’t throw off the balance – most foods have enough calcium to allow for the addition of an egg or muscle meat as long as it’s 20% or less of the meal.

  • losul

    A few times I would just crunch up the shells good and include them whenever I gave Turbo an egg, but believe it or not, I was seeing lots of pieces of shell in his poo. I would have thought the strong stomach acids would have easily and quickly dissolved these, but apparently not larger bits.

    Now I just wash them, (along with the shells from what we eat) dry them, and when I have a bunch, grind them fine in a coffee grinder. This then goes carefully measured into turbo’s beef mix (not the Darwins) where there is no ground bone, My chicken mix and turkey mix I already include ground bone.

    The parrots also get some ground shell mixed with their fresh food. The grey and the cockatoo need extra calcium in their diets. Instead of oil glands like in the Amazon birds, they produce endless powder to waterproof their feathers. Occaisonally they all also get a scrambled egg.

    We make up the veggie/fruit/berry mix, about 24 lbs at a time, so that it is compatible with both dog and birds and then tailor it to fit at times of feeding. Whoops, i almost said killing 2 birds with one stone, lol. The birds also get lots of grains, seeds, legumes, and rice, much of it sprouted.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Darwin’s does suggest feeding sardines once a week. I haven’t heard anything about eggs, but I also give my dogs eggs very regularly, make sure you give them the shell too.

  • losul

    Thumbs up on your success Miz! Congratulations on the , route to a much healthier, happier dog.

    You might consider adding some sardines and egg sometimes. Walmart has Beach cliff sardines in water (from Canada, one of the Bumble Bee brands, Bumble Bee was the first to institute dolphin safe tuna fishing) while these are not tiny brisling sardines (much more expensive, and about 10 to 12 per can)), the price is very reasonable on these at one buck a can. These have 4 sardines to one 3.75 ounce can.. The eggs, I lightly cook the whites and leave the yolk mostly uncooked, by just stirring the white as it heats. I think if you ask Darwin’s, they will also suggest adding the sardines and eggs sometimes.

    I haven’t had any leakage problems, so probably isolated instances, maybe some damage to the packaging. Are you thawing them top side up?

  • http://twitter.com/Miznoone Miz

    I started transitioning my 2-year old large mixed breed dog to 50% Darwin’s, 50% kibble last month, and while he he had some tummy issues for the first few days (he has a sensitive stomach) – now all is well, and in fact his poop is even ‘better’ (harder, less stinky, smaller in volume) than it was before. Even his breath is smelling much better.

    I couldn’t be happier. The packaging is super convenient and the food always smells fresh and good. Some packs do leak when I defrost them in the fridge, but I’m told by their customer service they’re aware of this problem with some packs and are working on resolving it. My dog dances around in happiness when he sees me putting the Darwin’s food in his plate, before sitting like a good boy so I let him eat it. :) Thanks DFA for introducing me to this great raw food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    They usually have amazing customer service.

  • debbiepg

    My sister called them and they were showing that she did order all turkey and they are going to ship the order again.   They were very nice and we are relieved and very happy. 

    Thanks again for your help, Patty

  • debbiepg

    She is when you gets off from work.  I hope they will at least send the 8 lbs of turkey since she has the 2 lbs.  Thanks for you help

  • Pattyvaughn

    She should call them back and see if they will reship the correct stuff.

  • debbiepg

    Thank you Patty, That’s what I thought.  She called them on the phone to make sure they would send all Turkey before ordering. 

    They only sent 2 lbs. of the Turkey.  Now she’s paid for 8 lbs of meat she doesn’t need.

    Thanks again.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I ordered through the website and in one of the steps on the website, you choose what proteins you do or don’t want.  I didn’t want chicken.  I didn’t get chicken.

    Another time, they accidently didn’t put turkey in my order.

  • debbiepg

    Could someone, please, help me regarding Darwin’s raw dog food?

    I ordered the introductory offer from Darwin’s and ask for half Duck and 1/2 Chicken and that’s what they sent me.  My dog had trouble transitioning to just duck for weeks.

    Then, I talk my sister into ordering the introd offer for her dogs and she told them she wanted all turkey meat because her dogs have allergies (maybe leaky gut) and she did not want to switch meats for a while.  

    Then, she called me this morning, upset, that they had sent her a mixture of ALL 4 meats.  Did all of you have to take a mixture of all 4 meats?

    Your answers would be very much appreciated.

    Thank you,
    Debbie

     

  • Danamsmith

    I have fed my 4 dogs Darwins for quiet awhile now. I have four yorkies and the two puppies have never had any thing else. They are all healthy and happy. My older yorkies don’t care for the duck very much. They love their food, and I love the convenience of getting raw food delivered to my door. I love Darwins, give them a try! The customer service is excellent, and I love the calendar.

  • InkedMarie

    Thanks Patty. Darwins posted on FB that they got it back up & running. 
    I think my husband is tired of me talking raw…I’d really like to get our new gal on premade raw for both meals. We picked up some Steve’s Real food for she and Ginger (they only have chicken, which Boone can’t have) but it’s nuggets. I think I’m too used to Darwins. I worry bout the fat as well so I don’t think we’ll use it.
       Steve told me to call Darwins and ask the price to buy 100lbs….you get a discount on that, my two girls can eat chicken so I will see how “cheap” I can get it. Ideally, I’d like our new gal on Darwins full time and the other two on it for one meal. We’ll see.
       

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yeah, I was able to get it just now.

  • InkedMarie

    Its Saturday Jan 26th….can anyone get to the Darwins website? It’s been down for me all day.

  • losul

    If you are talking about Darwin’s raw, it’s been my experience with my dog, that they understate the amount needed to feed in most cases. Don’t get me wrong, we luv Darwins natural selections and have no intention to stop using it, but it’s only about 15% of what I feed total, otherwise it could get too costly, and also I’m enjoying home prepping, although it’s still a learning process.

    Darwin’s uses lean meats and low cal veggies. 70% is lean meat, organs and bone, whilst the other 30% is low calorie veggies and other minor ingredients. So in each 1 lb of food there is only 11 ounces of meat, organs, and bone, while the other 5 ounces are mostly low calorie vegetables.

    On average there are only 556 calories per pound in the varieties. So even at the high-end reccomended (4% of your dogs weight, or 8.32 ounces) your dog would be getting only 289 calories/day on average. It might be enough for your dog, but I kind of doubt it. Use the calculator on this site, or another to figure roughly your dogs daily caloric needs.

    What I would do if I were you, if your dog is already proper weight, and is typical/fairly active adult dog, is figure starting out using 8 ounces Darwin’s a day-278 calories on average, (it comes packaged in 8 ounce portions) plus add 1 oz (1/4 can of a 3.75 ounce can of sardines packed in water) for an additional 37 calories/day, and 1/2 of a small egg for an additional 30 calories/day. That would bring the daily calorie count to 345. Or you could do 1/2 can sardines one day and 1 whole small egg the next.  IMO, these 2 things should be added to Darwin’s anyway, and you can so without throwing out of whack, the fat and nutritional compostion/balance of the Darwins.

    You will still need to transition from old food slowly.

    The amount could easily still not be enough, or there’s a chance it would be too much, so monitor your dogs weight very closely. One pound loss or gain is alot for a 13 lb dog. 

  • Pattyvaughn

    Mine eats 1/2 cup a day, but like every one says all dogs are different.

  • neezerfan

    You should send Darwin’s an email. They will be very happy to answer that question for you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi Jan,

    I believe that the Darwin’s rule of thumb on this is for an adult dog eats between 2% – 4% of their total body weight per day (not per meal), with a smaller dog like yours actually eating somewhere in the higher percentage of 4%.

  • Jan

    how much raw food should a 13lb dog eat per day?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi Ricky,

    I couldn’t find an old email that Darwin’s sent me with some suggestions for making the food more appealing to your dog if you’re having some palatability issues. If you send them a quick email, they’ll probably send you the same information. Check out this page on their website: http://www.darwinspet.com/transitioning-to-raw-food/. I found the light poaching trick worked great for my two, but they also suggest adding some cheese or an egg yolk. Personally, I’d avoid cooking it through and would try gently warming – - just enough to take the chill off.

    I love Darwin’s,it’s a great product. Take a look at their add-ons for your next order; they have: raw meat bones, tripe, jerky treats.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5VZMSPUKWMW373J2XJDSYZQ644 Ricky

    I got my order shipped in already and i seems my dog (15 lb chi) seems to like all the meats (chicken, duck, turkey) EXCEPT the beef one. It seems odd to me because at first it seemed to me like he was gonna like the beef the most being red meat. He will not eat it unless I cook it through. He isn’t even a picky eater he used to eat pedigree no prob. Anyone else had this problem??

  • Pattyvaughn

    I just got my order.  Not only was it still frozen solid but it still had a little bit of dry ice left to play with.  I like the way they did the calendar, too.  Last week I got rabbit, goat, mutton, and sardines from Hare Today so I’m actually set for a while.  I even got stuff to start offering the cats some raw, we’ll see how that goes.

  • losul

    Turbo was due on his rabies shot last month, unfortunately I haven’t found a vet I like yet. The two we already tried were unacceptable.

  • losul

    I was almost certain Merial had some PureMax vaccines for dogs too, although I don’t see on website now.

    http://merial.ca/cats/purevax.asp

  • losul

    Petersenk,
    maybe discuss with your vet whether  thimerosol and/or adjuvant free vaccines are available

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Yep, there sure can be some reactions to vaccinations.  My Golden pup ended up with vaccinosis which resulted in a big yeast problem for him and he was leading the route of leaky gut, fortunately I picked up on the fact that there was a problem, got him the right medical treatment and started him on Brothers Complete Allergy ~ which broke the cycle.  : )

    Some information on vaccinosis:

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/08/20/pets-over-vaccination-disease.aspx

    http://leerburg.com/vaccinosis.htm

    http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/p/t.html

  • Petersenk

    Good to know!  I am nervous giving him his first big dog shot and thought maybe I could skip it!!  I will wait to change foods til after that as I’ve heard there can be some reactions to the shot.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi cockapoomom –

    Mabel didn’t experience any issues – I was just saying that I was upset that a veterinarian that was filling in for my regular vet gave her an extra booster without my consent. I typically do 3 sets of puppy boosters for my dogs (last one around 14 weeks) then a rabies at 16 weeks – this veterinarian decided to give her a 4th booster when I had already told the veterinarian I only wanted her to have three. Her last booster was in the window of time where the mother’s antibodies should have been gone and the booster should have provided her with full immunity so I felt no need to go ahead and give her a 4th shot as a “just and case” measure.

  • cockapoomom

     I am due for my first dog shot after my puppy’s 3 boosters.  Are you saying I should skip that shot and go for the rabies at 16 weeks? Or was it due to food allergies with Mabel?

  • InkedMarie

    Yes, I’d have emailed if I hadn’t LOL

  • Pattyvaughn

    I trust you got your calendar.  I’ll get mine next week, along with some yummy tripe and other goodies.

  • losul

    None really taken, except, If you are referring to me, I would think by now you know I’m not a “she”

  • InkedMarie

    No idea why she’s taking offense. Hope I get the calendar. If I don’t tomorrow, I’m emailing you LOL

  • Pattyvaughn

    She’s taking offense at your wondering why hers came from one place and yours from another. 

    You will get the calendar too.  Extra copies can be bought if you want to.  It’s not just for newbies.

  • losul
  • InkedMarie

    Yes, I did thank whomever it was but I have no idea why you are saying 

    “Actually in was in the “raw dog foods” thread.
    I was the one that informed you you only had to buy 40lbs to get the 10% discount.
    Remember now? I think you even recently thanked whoever it was for informing you of that.”

  • InkedMarie

    who are you talking to?

  • losul

    Actually in was in the “raw dog foods” thread.

    I was the one that informed you you only had to buy 40lbs to get the 10% discount.

    Remember now? I think you even recently thanked whoever it was for informing you of that.

  • losul

    pretty weird yes, you could always call Seattle and ask them why yours isn’t coming from Bethlehem. Mine shipped to Missouri.

    If you want to take time to scroll down the thread, to last month before the holidays, you can see where I said I had ordered and my ship date was scheduled for Jan 7. I have no reason to make this up, if that’s what you are you implying

  • losul

    They still charged me the same shipping 99 cents/lb +6.00 handling

  • InkedMarie

    I;m in NH and got my tracking number yesterday. I just looked and it’s coming from Seattle. Weird, huh? Wouldnt you think it’d come from PA?

  • InkedMarie

    ooh, my order arrives tomorrow. I hope I get the calendar but it may be for newbies like you LOL

  • neezerfan

    I just got an email from Darwin’s stating my order has shipped. It’s also coming from Bethlehem, PA. That’s great! Hopefully, shipping charges will be less?

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m like Marie.  I’m saving a little money by buying ZooLogics, so I can spend it elsewhere keeping my gang happy and healthy.  In my case, it’s by adding tripe and duck necks to my order.  I figure it’s still way better than they were getting before I found such good foods.  I often use Darwin’s as a topper too.  Mine are very fond of their Brothers without toppers though, but I only give it to them without any extras about once every week.

  • losul

    Got my latest Darwin’s order today. Shipped on the 7th. From the shipping track record looks like it originated in Bethlehem, PA. I guess they maybe have a distribution point there now.

    They are in process of changing their shipping containers, so no need to send the old style back anymore, if you get the old style still.

    Everything looks good, solidly frozen. Manufacture dates between late November and mid December.They even sent a real nice 2013 Darwin doggie favorites calendar on cards packaged in a plastic DVD type holder, as a holiday gift.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi Patty,

    Do you use Natural Selections or Zoologics?  I’ve been using Natural Selections, but it’s so expensive and it seems lately Bella isn’t eating much and I’ve ended up throwing it away about half of the time.  I just got my email today, that my next shipment is going out on Tuesday and I was considering making some changes to it.  Besides, I’ve gotten a little off track with regularly doing our raw meal and am finding that my two seem to actually prefer their kibble with canned topper meal and the past couple of days Sam actually ate around the canned and clearly preferred the kibble portion.  Of course, he eventually ate it all.  : )

  • Pattyvaughn

    I like Zoologics.  It is a better quality of meat than you will find in almost all kibble and better than many other raw foods  It is shipped freshly made and frozen solid.. My 3 dogs do great on it and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

  • http://twitter.com/Martian767 Michele Arndt

    What do you think of the Darwin ZooLogics?  I have three dogs and have replaced only one of their two daily feedings with raw because it is so expensive.  Looks like Darwin is offering a more economical option with the ZooLogics but I would like a little more info about it before I feed it to my dogs.  One has atypical Cushings and SARDS and another has an autoimmune disease.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks for the link!

  • Alexandra

    Hi Patty,

    The Chinese have a theory about energetics in pet food. Dogs that have allergies, seek cool places, excessive panting, etc. are considered hot, so to “cool” the animal you would feed the cooling foods.

    Dogs that are couch potatoes, inactive, etc are considered cool so you would feed warm to give them a boost.

    There is also neutral which doesn’t really effect what state the animal is in.

    This link explains it better.

    http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/yinyanbalance.htm

    I have found it very helpful for Dante when doing raw feeding. Fish and duck work the best for Dante and you can see a difference within a few meals. Dante’s ears are his big indicator, they pinken when he he is going to react.

  • Pattyvaughn

    What makes a protein “cool”?  I’ve heard people use the term, but I’ve never heard a satisfactory explaination.  I should probably go back and read Steve Brown again…

  • Pattyvaughn

    Richard sent me a nice email and said that Micah needs to stay on Allergy at least two months after I’m seeing no more symptoms to be sure.  That sounds like a good time frame to me.  The other dogs are about to rotate to Allergy Formula and at about the time for them to rotate to the next flavor, I can make a decision about whether Micah gets to try the new flavor too:-)

  • Alexandra

    Yeah, that’s why I don’t want to do anything, until I hear what he has to say.

    It’s hard watching him itch so much though. :-( . I have increased the amount of coconut oil to try to heal inside out, while feeding “cool” proteins to help with his inflammation.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I was thinking that to get the waiver, you want the vet to see how bad the reaction to the shots is, which is why I asked if you were in a holding pattern.

  • Alexandra

    Hi Patty,

    Yeah I am going to wait until the appointment. It’s on the 14th. I don’t want to start something and find out that he may not want Dante on that.

    Thanks for the suggestion though. :-)

  • Alexandra

    Hi HDM,

    I would be furious over that, for sure.

    Mine took him to the back to do a titer and when she brought him back to me and said he got Lyme and Lepto.

    When I called yesterday to get the manufacturers info, they refused, saying that he would have reacted at time of injection, and that he has allergies and make a tech appt and we will pull blood….I said he is never getting a needle from you again! And hung up. :-)

    Will see if someone else on Monday can answer it for me.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Mabel got some vaccines against my wishes as well. :(

    I had always had only three sets of puppy boosters done on my dogs. My regular vet was out for awhile and there was a substitute vet in for her. When I brought Mabel in for her third set of boosters at 14 weeks we scheduled an appointment for her to have her rabies at 16 weeks. The new vet said she would like Mabel to get another set of boosters. I clearly (VERY clearly) told her I did not want that – with every dog I’ve had in the past my regular vet has done three boosters 1st with the breeder at 8 weeks, then again at 11 weeks, then 14 weeks and a rabies at 16 weeks. Well the day she went in for her rabies I had to work so I had my mom bring Mabel to her appointment. I completely forgot to tell my mom to make sure that if that substitute vet was still there that she did not give Mabel another set of boosters. When I got home I asked my mom if they just gave her the rabies and she was like “no they gave her two shots”, so I checked her record book and sure enough that vet popped her anotherset of boosters. UGH, I was so mad.. And not even that she gave her one but only 2 weeks after her last one?! That doesn’t even do anything, they need to be 3-4 weeks apart..

  • Pattyvaughn

    I happened to read the right thing at just the right time for me to put it all together before I had a full blown problem, so it took about 2 1/2 months to turn him around.  It doesn’t hurt that I was a vet tech so I knew what I was looking at.  I haven’t even had him to the vet since I realized what was going on.  I know what route my vet would want to take, and I had no plans on going that way. 

    I’m sorry to hear about Dante’s setback.  That would really upset me!!  Have you tried adding astaxanthin or are you in a holding pattern until you see the holistic vet?

  • Alexandra

    Hi Patty,

    Wow, Micah sounds exactly like Dante! Right down to the same food when I brought him home!

    Unfortunately I learned after he had a full blown systemic Candida infection. It took a year to get him out of it. The Brothers Allergy eliminated most of his symptoms within the first two weeks. The itching to this day still lingers.

    When I started adding raw, things started to improve even more so, so I kept increasing his raw. He was doing wonderfully until October…

    His FORMER vet vaccinated him in October against my wishes for Lepto and Lyme, and the symptoms have returned full force.

    I am almost certain he is suffering from vaccinosis. We have an appointment with a pure holistic vet that is three hours away from us, to help him AND to seek exemption from vaccines.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I have no desire to change now, i’m just thinking about the future, how long after the last signs before I’m sure.  I actually have a brand new bag of Allergy.

    Micah was showing signs of IBS and maybe leaky gut(but I didn’t know it at that time) as an 8 wk old when we got him, so I imagine the fact that they weaned him onto Purina One was the culprit.  I started upgrading his food immediately.  He started showing signs of intolerances i.e. skin problems and having a yeasty smell at the beginning of September as a 6 month old.  By the end of September, I had him on 1/2 raw and 1/2 Brothers Allergy.  He was never very bad with it because I recognized the yeast smell pretty quickly.

    I will for sure go at least 6 months on Allergy, but I’m hoping if he shows no more signs, that I can start rotating through the other Brothers flavors after that.  Of course all bets are off if the new Allergy flavors come out in the meantime!!

  • Alexandra

    Hi Patty,

    I would give a good six months minimum. If your dog has yeast issues, it could take 6-12 months, or even longer in some cases for a detox. I missed what your dog has going on.

    Any changes now could affect the progress that is being made.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I was going to ask this on the Brothers Allergy thread, but I’ll ask it here instead.  It’s been 2 weeks since Micah’s last detox episode, which is the longest we’ve gone so far without symptoms, and that got me thinking.  How long should we go without symptoms before I decide we’re done with this thing and I can start rotating the kibble portion of his diet again?  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to rush, in fact I just got a new bag that will last a while… I’m just wondering.

  • Alexandra

    Hi Betsy,

    Yes, it is closer to the ancestral diet. Based on what the wolves eat in the wild. I also want to say that the amino acids etc in red meats are more beneficial.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hey Alexandra,

    I’m curious as to why you say that about having a diet that’s more heavy in red meat than other protein. It seemed like I read that on an Abady can recently… I would suspect that the ancestral diet has more red meat protein… is that why?

  • Alexandra

    Wow! That is a lot! Just make sure you get a variety of meats and the diet is heavier in red meat proteins.

  • Cheri2525

    Love darwin but my dog is not slowing down and at 4.5Lbs a day, it’s way too expensive specially the $100.00 for shipping. :-(

  • Cheri2525

    I’m switching to MPC.  the packaging seems to be easier for your problem.

  • Cheri2525

    well, after looking at my bills I realized I’ve been paying $650.00 a month and not $500.  and that’s not when he was eating almost double! Yikes!!!!

  • Cheri2525

    it’s blood.  their duck and turkey and chicken hare bloody as well and some don’t have beet.  i do get it though.  it is very annoying when you have to give half of a package.  I totally get it.  I open two pounds at a time so it’s easier.

  • InkedMarie

    So, why not give her half a package at a time? Will she gain weight if she eats a half?  Do you feed her Darwins for two meals a day? If yes, then maybe give her one meal of Darwins, the other meal of something else (dehydrated, canned, kibble…)

  • monkey

    Yes is looks like real meat and is bloody. If you’re feeding Beef though all that red stuff isn’t pure blood though, it is juice from the beets.

  • monkey

     She eats 2/3 of a package so yeah the first feeding is easy but the next one i have to add the remaining 1/3 + 1/3 of the other. I wish she ate 1/2 package at a time. Then i have to put the empty package in a ziplock bag or it smells up the trash can. Haha, I just find it annoying but i still do it. I was also one of the first on the site to start feeding Darwin’s and i continue to feed it more than i do Primal.

  • InkedMarie

    I was ordering 50lbs, plus some bones and tripe. Since money is a little short at the moment, I was happy to be able to get 40lbs of food and still get the discount. This time, no bones or tripe but I can buy it elsewhere. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    That’s true, Marie. I know last time I ordered, I asked where the price break was and they adjusted my order to just over 40 pounds so that I’d qualify for the discount. Oh, and the “extras” as in bones, tripe, etc., are not included in the first 40 pounds.

  • Pattyvaughn

    HDMs whole food supplement recipe is on the forum.  It’s an excellent addition to MPC grinds and don’t forget the source of Omega 3s like fish or krill oil.

  • Alexandra

    Hi Cheri,

    That is fine, I would add a whole food supplement for peace of mind.

  • Cheri2525

    We’ll see…typo

  • Cheri2525

    i have two small children.  No way i’m making my own food but I’m considering just switching to MPC. It’s local delivery for me.  i’m looking at it right now. If it doesn’t work, then i’ll add brothers.  I know, the thought of giving kibbles is turning my stomach cause I’m not used to it.  but I want to bring the monthly payment to 250 instead of 500.  we’ll.  Thank you for your suggestion.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Cheri –

    Have you considered making your own raw instead of feeding pre-made? Pre-made is nice and convenient but it’s not very practical for those with large dogs and/or multiple dogs. If you make raw from scratch you can use much higher quality ingredients, control all the ingredients that go into the food and control protein/fat/carb levels. I used to wish I could affort pre-made, but now that I’ve been doing homemade for so long I don’t think I’d feed pre-made even if I could afford it – I like having complete control over the food. I have three large active bloodhounds that have trouble maintaining weight and by making their food higher in fat they’re able to maintain their weight better. You can also “stretch” homemade food better by feeding raw meaty bones, cottage cheese, eggs, etc. (all cheap, quality protein). When I got my third dog this past summer I was pricing things out and was getting really worried that I’d have to start feeding one meal of kibble (UGH!) per day to cut costs. At this time I was utilizing a lot of grinds from MPC and Hare Today, in addition to Primal and Bravo’s grinds, pre-made supplements, etc. Not wanting to downgrade my dogs’ food I started doing a lot of research and figuring out ways to cut costs. I got hooked up with a wholesale supplier that supplies restaurants and grocery stores and they told me if I order 300 lbs. of meat at once that they’d deliver to my house. By cutting out the middleman and getting food right from the wholesaler I save so much – I get chicken backs for $0.40/lb., Chicken Leg Quarters for $0.55/lb., Chicken hearts, gizzards, livers for $0.78/lb., turkey necks for $0.60/lb., I can even get 90% lean grass fed ground beef for $3.80/lb (it runs almost $6/lb. at my grocery store!). I also started making my own whole food supplement (I buy bulk ingredients online from Starwest Botanicals) and it costs so much less per pound than using pre-mixed supplements. I even bribed my dad into getting me a deer during hunting season so I got about 60 lbs. of venison for free. I also found a woman that raises sheep (grass fed) and will sell me a whole sheep for pretty cheap – I figure with all the meat and organs I get off it it will only cost around $3/lb (ground lamb runs $10/lb. at my grocery store). Unfortunately for those of us with large dogs feeding raw is difficult cost-wise but it’s all about finding little ways to cut costs. Before resorting to kibble I’d strongly urge you to consider homemade and see if you can locate some sort of wholesaler or butcher that can supply the types of meat you need for a reasonable cost. To feed my three dogs homemade raw I’m spending about the same amount that it would cost me to feed a 5 star kibble topped with a 5 star canned food.

  • Cheri2525

    i’m switching from darwin to MPC and brothers only.  What do you think?  

  • Cheri2525

    %15 over 100 lbs.

  • InkedMarie

    I believe it was here that someone told me that you only have to order 40lbs of Darwins in order to get the 10% discount. Thank you, whomever you are! That makes it so much easier to afford it!

  • InkedMarie

    what do you mean safe? It’s always been safe. Oh, you mean the website? If you’re unsure, just call them

  • Cheri2525

    thank you.

  • debbiepg

    Is the Honest Kitchen site safe now?  Does anyone know? Thanks

  • Alexandra

    Thanks!

    Good luck!

    This website is very helpful for sure!

  • Alexandra

    If you do a 50 / 50 on the meals the raw not having veggies isn’t much of a concern as your dog gets that from the kibble.

    You are lucky to have them local. It helps the cost tremendously.

    I supplement with coconut oil or fish oils.

    You can add a whole food supplement for peace of mind. The way I rotate there is a max of three meals a week, where they get the grinds, so it all works out in the end.

  • Cheri2525

    You have been SOOO helpful.  I love this website!

  • Cheri2525

    If I order from MPC, I’ll have to pay only $20.00 .  it’s a local delivery for me. :-)  The only thing is that the vegetables and everything else that comes with Darwin, doesn’t come with MPC.

  • Cheri2525

    With brothers, I pay $100.00 less vs. darwin but i don’t pay $100.00 for shipping that i would normally pay with darwin.  So I’ll save $200.00 per 100 lbs.

  • Alexandra

    Hi Cheri,

    My dogs LOVE the fish kibble and red meat, I do rotate all through the formulas with them. As for mercury, I believe that is an issue with trout and salmon. Menhaden is a “clean” fish from what I read.

    I usually do the 100 pounds when I order, much more cost effective. :-)

    Nothing beats how fresh Brothers is. I have literally had things shipped as soon as they receive a truck, so we are talking less then a month old in those cases.

  • InkedMarie

    shipping is free from Brothers so how do you know how much you’re saving?

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Don’t forget you can also give up to 20% of unbalanced foods.  Sometimes I just give mine a chicken leg and I always have organs on hand and supplements.  I give kibble, commercial raw, homemade raw and canned foods.