Bravo Balance Dog Food (Raw)

Hello to anyone reading this. I just recently stumbled upon this website and I am lovin it. I’ve been feeding my dog the Honest kitchens food and Sojos for over a year and a half now. I just recently (as in yesterday) switched his food to a more raw raw diet. My dog is the kind of dog that will eat something as if he hasn’t eaten for over a month, when really he ate something just a few seconds ago. Lol So you could just imagine how he reacted when I was preparing his meal.

I wondering though, has anyone’s dog/s had a problem with shedding a lot even while they were eating raw, dehydrated foods like the honest kitchen and sojos? Cause my dog is shedding like crazy. He’s never shed as much as he does now and I am getting concerned. Will the higher protein content and smaller carb content help him not shed as much.

On another note, I cut the chubs into pieces and put them into sandwich bags (biodegradable ones) and put them back into the freezer. Now for whatever reason, I felt like cutting the last chub in the sink and boy did I make the right choice. The freaking thing squirted all over my face, neck arms and in the sink. Okay so I’m not lucky that I got blood squirted all over me and in the sink, but imagine it had been the kitchen counter, the dishes, your dog and whatever clean is near you. It would have been a bloody bloody mess that’s for sure.

Thanks for the generous and kind words, Mike. It is greatly appreciated.

Just trialing this new ‘More Recent Comments’ feature and it’s great that we can now further back track our and others comments. A top new feature and one that makes it even a better reason to remain under blog format than that of a forum. Good work!

And thanks Toxed and aimee. My new job is going well so far.

aimee – Just between you and I, my writing style is actually more blunt than Dr. Lonsdale’s lol. At least his books are less blunt, but still factual. However, his articles are a bit more liberally blunt and heart felt than his books. And obviously less lay than my comments, being that he is one expert and I’m just a lay writer re these subjects.

Gordon, congratulations on the new job!

LOL aiimee – What da hell must you think of my writing style then, if you think that of Lonsdale’s books? He writes quite well, and calls a spade a spade. At least that’s my impression and is what I prefer. The plain facts that is.

Thanks Toxed. I’m on and off ATM, because I’ve changed jobs, and no longer work over nights. And I’ve been really tired and lacking in sleep while my body clock gets readjusted. And so, I probably won’t be on as much. Especially in the times I posted before.

Also, should I not respond if addressed, would be only due to the fact that because I won’t be posting at the times you guys do, anymore, I’ll miss the posts that disappear off the bottom from the recent comments list on the right. I only caught up on the latest here, as this thread, I recall, was the last that I commented on.

Many brands (of human products) like Kal are tested to be lead free (possibly other contaminants are tested for as well). The EWG does warn about fluoride in bone meal but that should hold true with any animal fed fluoridated water I would assume.

The type of calcium is actually important.. I know the type best utilized by humans but not dogs.. However, stealing from Gordon, I’m sure Mother Nature can point us in the right direction — bone / bone meal..

I attended a seminar called Back to School for Doctors (as a guest of my father).. I learned at the seminar that 1% of the calcium in the body is calcium bicarbonate and that this 1% of calcium is VERY important to the immune system. Calcium lactate and calcium citrate are the best sources of calcium for conversion to calcium bicarbonate (aka ionizable calcium). When there is not enough ionizable calcium in the blood the body will heat muscle and the heated muscle will leach the needed calcium from the bone — to fight the infection. This is why bringing down a fever (with aspirin etc) causes more harm then good..

The below 2 page article does a fabulous job of explaining the process in an easy to understand format.. Here’s a blurb from the article

“Several studies, such as those reported by the Department of Pediatrics at Harvard Medical School as well as the Critical Care Units at Detroit’s Receiving Hospital and the Helsinki University Hospital, indicate that a consistent key factor in critically ill patients (including children) and their ability to survive an infection in a hospital setting was the level of the ionized calcium in their blood.

It all makes sense when one understands that ionized calcium is what stimulates the process by which microbes in the body are engulfed and destroyed (phagocytosis). Howard Petty, PhD from the University of Michigan Health System’s Kellogg Eye Center has provided high speed images of how calcium
acts in an attack on foreign matter in the body.” http://www.thejoyofhealth.com/files/20080222_Enhancing_Your_Calcium_Knowledge.pdf

Teething children can get fevers for this same reason – not enough proper calcium in the blood. The old timer doctors, like dentist Dr. Royal Lee, used to give babies “calcium lactate and barley water” and the fever would go away.. http://www.wellness-star.com/Nutrition/Drugs-Starvation.shtml

There’s a lot less info, from what I’ve found, on dogs but I have to assume it is similar. AND, bone or bone meal would supply the most utilizable source of calcium for dogs…??

What little I know, and it ain’t much, about calcium is hat it is balanced by magnesium and potassium, and both must be present for beneficial metabolizing in humans. Sorry if that’s a repeat, I didn’t go reread the previous posts. Got an exposure this a.m., so just hanging on. :-}

Jessie – Rhodesian Ridgebacks are still descendants of the wolf as is the Hottentot dog. It doesn’t matter what breed of dog one has. Big, weird, or small, they’re all descendants of the wolf. They all do best on the diet of the wolf. That includes Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

“Perhaps in the natural raw bone presentation the breaking down of the collegen matrix and absorbtion of minerals does not render Ca as available as does when it is presented in a processed form ???.”

aimee — I once watched a seminar given by David Wolfe (for humans). He feels many diseases in humans are caused by excess calcium from (if I remember right) less utilizable sources – diseases like cataracts are actually calcium deposits. Anywho, the calcium in dog food I believe is most likely calcium carbonate. In humans (not sure about dogs) calcium carbonate is very digestible but not highly usable. It requires more conversions then calcium citrate or lactate (which are less digestible but better utilized). Wondering if there may be some correlation in dogs?

Hi Gordon,

You bring up a good point. I have to wonder if the difference lies in the way Ca is presented to the body which then influences its absorption or is it solely a matter of growth rate.

Smalll breeds can intake haigher Ca levels without an orthopedic consequence so selected growth rates must play some role.

Puppies can’t down regulate Ca absorption as adults do which makes me postulate that the system is set up to get every bit of available Ca as possible.

Perhaps in the natural raw bone presentation the breaking down of the collegen matrix and absorbtion of minerals does not render Ca as available as does when it is presented in a processed form ???.

Could this explain why when we feed processed foods the Ca level in the food needs to be controlled? I don’t know!

P. S. I listened to the entire Lonsdale associate podcast. I had to drive to a library to listen to it as my computer/connection was too slow.

Hey Jessie,

A raw diet can be the healthiest possible diet (for any dog) ever. However as The Great Dane Lady points out it can be the worst too (not just raw but any home made diet, including cooked, that is not balanced). FAR too often people get all gung ho about going raw but don’t research the actual needs of a dog. And, consequently, feed a diet that is deficient in vitamins and minerals. This can cause a whole host of issues — magnesium deficiency can cause seizures, taurine or vitamin e deficiency can cause heart problems, iodine deficiency can cause hypo and hyperthyroid.. Etc etc etc.

The key to a healthful raw diet is to make sure you are not omitting any nutrients that are vital to health — which they all are. Several different vets and nutritionists recommened different diets. One is not right while another is wrong — rather they just look at things a bit differently. Gordon likes Dr. Lonsdale. When following the diet as instructed it can be very healthful. However, some people may try to cut corners and get in big trouble. I like Dr. Becker who has a recipe book that gives step by step instructions. But even with those instructions some still cut corners – and, you guessed it, get in big trouble.

The key with garlic is to feed small amounts off and on. I do 4 days on 3 days off during the summer and then as needed in the winter months. The body is constantly making new red blood cells so enough garlic would need to be fed for enough days to damage existing cells to the point that the body couldn’t make enough new cells to replace the damaged cells. That being said — I would never give garlic to a dog that was already anemic for any reason (intestinal worms, fleas etc).

Gordon,

I was rereading these posts, I have to to get the info to stick, and noticed you said something about feeding garlic, but not for fleas… I just wanted to say that while I don’t see it as a huge flea repellent either, it’s an amazing intestinal parasite remedy. I’ve got twenty head of sheep and after the rounds of neighborhood pesticide applications that damaged me, their immune systems were pretty beleaguered. Depressed immune system results in parasite infestations… Well, the vet said “must use a paracitide!” So, I did. (still following orders back then) killed several. Since I know Shawna advocates garlic for worms I determined to try it. Did some rummaging around on the Internet for amounts appropriate for sheep. LOL, one of my fav shepardesses uses it! I’ve switched and it’s amazing! If I look out and see a sheep indicating its got worms (or gut issues) I feed em garlic. With in one hour they’re right as rain. They love the stuff! Haven’t lost any yet, even with the neighborhood spraying. Just wanted to testify to its effectiveness.

Jessie,

I tried to see your pups but it wouldn’t load. : ( I started looking at foods years ago when showed Labs in conformation and obedience.

A friend bred and showed English Mastiffs which is why I was at the Mastiff Specialty asking breeders what they raised their pups on.

In regards to Ca, the diet you are on is approx 3 to 4 grams Ca/1000 kcals using the Ca min and max they provided. I can’t comment on the Bravo because there is no Ca on their website. You’ll have to ask the company. I personally don’t feed raw.

You might enjoy http://www.dogstardaily.com which is a great site for information on training pups. Raising two together will surely be challanging.

Good Luck!

Here’s one of the ones I found but I’m able to locate the other… grrr

“Abstract
12 proteolytic fractions were obtained with disc–electrophoresis from the gastric mucosa in healthy dogs. 5 proteases (I group) were only found in fundus and gastric body whereas 7 those (II group) were found in antrum as well. Study of the fractions proteolytic activity revealed two of them to be active in pH 1.0-5.0; two in pH 4.0-5.0; one in pH 1.0-2.0; the area of other proteases activity involved 3-4 units of pH. The considerable amount of proteases and the large area of their activity seem to secure the protein hydrolysis in the stomach in different pH values of eaten food.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6347728

I did find something regarding the fundus in dogs.. I posted here before but didn’t add it to favorites. Will see if I can find it.

Jesse,

Congratulations on your twins!

I’ve heard of and seen carpal flexual deformity. As I recall it is thought to be an asynchonous growth between bone and ligament and seen in rapid growth.

I’ve posted a few thoughts on feeding a large breed pup on the blue buffalo wilerness thread. So you may want to pop over there.

You want a slow steady growth rate. Your pups should look a bit on the thin side. Body score 4/9 see http://www.purina.com for body scoring.

The key is Calcium. On an energy basis no more than 3.5 grams/1000kcals. Call the company and ask what the level is in the food. This works out to about 1% of the diet for a dry food.

Adult food is not appropriate for puppy growth.

Protein levels do not cause improper growth.

If you decide to use Bravo I’d use the balance formula but not before establishing the level of Calcium in the food as I’d think it likely may be higher than what is safe for large breed growth. I’d be more likey to use a canned topper balanced for large breed growth.

Eukaneuba large breed has a Ca of .88% and when talking to various breeders of English Mastiffs it was the food they all recommended for growing those giants.

I came across this posted by a board certified veterinary nutritionist regarding large breed growth. You may find it useful. http://www.petdiets.com/faqs/display_faq.asp?ID=663

Jessie,

Maybe your pups would enjoy a raw meaty bone couple times a week since you will be just using raw food as a supplement.

Not to interrupt your discussion, but I am a newbie here! I have been reading a lot from this website lately because it has so much valuable information that I would not have known otherwise! So, thank you for the knowledge base from all of you dog food experts!
I have two Rhodesian Ridgeback puppies, 16 and 14 weeks in age that currently weigh 40 and 30 pounds, growing rapidly! The breeder gave me a Eukanuba kit when I purchased our first puppy, and I just assumed that it was good food! Thank god I started doing some of my own research and have now switched them to Wellness Large Breed Puppy mixed with Wellness Grain Free 95% meat and a little water to make a gravy. They seem to be doing very well on this food, however, I would like to start incorporating Bravo Balance raw (maybe?) instead of the canned. I have a few questions though, and am hoping that some of you can help.
The breeder that I received my second puppy from, different from the first, is suggesting that I switch to an Adult Maintenance formula immediately because after I sent her a link to some pictures that I had taken of my puppies, she claims that they are both developing something called “Carpel Flexural Deformity”, or “Knuckling Over”. I had never heard of this, so of course I was freaked out! My dogs will be our running companions in a couple of years, so not only am I greatly concerned for their health, but I most certainly don’t want them getting bone deformities! She claims that this is due to the protein content of the food being too high and they should be eating an adult formula! From everything that I have read on this site, potential bone deformities are caused from over feeding a good food, and not too much protein. I am not over feeding these guys and measure every meal! The vet had never even heard of this deformity, but said I don’t have anything to worry about in his opinion. My dogs look great! (I would be more than happy to share the link with the pictures of my puppies if anyone is interested in taking a look). In any case, I am not planning to switch them to an adult formula, but would like to start incorporating the Bravo raw into their diet. I can’t afford to feed them 100% raw, but am planning on feeding them 10 pounds each per month. I have no idea how to begin incorporating this into their diet (I.e. how much should I give them to start), etc. I also want to know if they are too young for this and if I should wait until they are a little older. Because the protein content is so much higher in the raw food, I also want to know if anyone else has heard of, or seen a dog with”Carpel Flexural Deformity”, and if too much protein has any contributing factors. Any input you can provide would be greatly appreciated!! Also, because I can’t afford to feed them 100% raw, is it ok to give them a little? Is that still better than none at all, or should I stick to the canned?
Thank you!

Why would they not survive the stomach aimee?

The enzyme caspases is involved in apoptosis (cell suicide). Cancer can’t happen if apoptosis is working properly.

“Excessive apoptosis causes atrophy, whereas an insufficient amount results in uncontrolled cell proliferation, such as cancer.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis