Blue Buffalo Wilderness (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Blue Buffalo Wilderness Dog Food receives the Advisor’s top rating of 5 stars.

The Blue Wilderness product line includes 13 dry dog foods, eleven claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance and two recipes for growth (Puppy).

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Blue Wilderness Senior
  • Blue Wilderness Small Breed
  • Blue Wilderness Healthy Weight
  • Blue Wilderness Adult Small Bite
  • Blue Wilderness Duck Recipe Adult
  • Blue Wilderness Large Breed Puppy
  • Blue Wilderness Salmon Recipe Adult
  • Blue Wilderness Chicken Recipe Adult
  • Blue Wilderness Chicken Recipe Puppy
  • Blue Wilderness Chicken Large Breed Adult
  • Blue Wilderness Large Breed Senior (4 stars)
  • Blue Wilderness Chicken Recipe Adult Toy Breed
  • Blue Wilderness Salmon Large Breed Adult (4.5 stars)

Blue Wilderness Chicken Large Breed Adult was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Blue Wilderness Chicken Large Breed Adult

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 40% | Fat = 14% | Carbs = 38%

Ingredients: Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, peas, tapioca starch, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), tomato pomace (source of lycopene), natural chicken flavor, dried egg, potatoes, flaxseed (source of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids), alfalfa meal, potato starch, whole carrots, whole sweet potatoes, blueberries, cranberries, apples, blackberries, pomegranate, spinach, pumpkin, barley grass, dried parsley, dried kelp, taurine, Yucca schidigera extract, l-carnitine, l-lysine, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, turmeric, oil of rosemary, beta carotene, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), d-calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), folic acid (vitamin B9), vitamin B12 supplement, calcium ascorbate (source of vitamin C), vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, iron amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, choline chloride, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, salt, caramel, potassium chloride, dried yeast (source of Saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 7.8%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis36%13%NA
Dry Matter Basis40%14%38%
Calorie Weighted Basis36%31%33%
Protein = 36% | Fat = 31% | Carbs = 33%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The third ingredient is turkey meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.

The fourth ingredient includes peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. And like all legumes, they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The fifth ingredient is tapioca starch, a gluten-free, starchy carbohydrate extract made from the root of the cassava plant.

The sixth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The seventh ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

After the natural chicken flavor, we find dried egg, a dehydrated powder made from shell-free eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The tenth ingredient is potato. Potatoes can be considered a gluten-free source of digestible carbohydrates. Yet with the exception of perhaps their caloric content, potatoes are of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, flaxseed is one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

Next, although alfalfa meal is high in plant protein (about 18%) and fiber (25%), this hay-family item is more commonly associated with horse feeds.

Next, caramel is a natural coloring agent made by caramelizing carbohydrates. It’s used by pet food manufacturers to impart a golden brown tint to the finished product.

However, the concentrated version of this ingredient commonly known as caramel coloring has been more recently considered controversial and found to cause cancer in laboratory animals.1

In any case, even though caramel is considered safe by the FDA, we’re always disappointed to find any added coloring in a pet food.

That’s because coloring is used to make the product more appealing to humans — not your dog. After all, do you really think your dog cares what color his food is?

In addition, we note the inclusion of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Blue Buffalo Wilderness Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Blue Buffalo Wilderness Dog Food looks like an above-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 40%, a fat level of 14% and estimated carbohydrates of about 38%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 37% and a mean fat level of 15%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 39% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 41%.

Above-average protein. Near-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the peas, flaxseed and alfalfa meal in this recipe, and the pea protein contained in some other recipes, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Blue Buffalo Wilderness is a meat-based dry dog food using a significant amount of chicken and turkey meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from Chewy.com for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

12/05/2014 Last Update

  • sharron

    sorry you might get this twice, no need to be sorry, i’m old school and stick with the common proteins, chicken, beef, lamb, turkey, lexee wouldn’t eat the novel proteins any ways

  • sharron

    no need to apology – i guess i’m old school and these different novel proteins that they are coming out with surprise me – i’m a chicken, beef, lamb, turkey kind of gal when it comes to meat protein for my dog, she wouldn’t eat the others any ways.

  • Amateria

    Sorry that wasn’t meant to be deregatory if you thought it was to you? I’m in a very Zen mood right now, I was hoping it would translate into the comment 🙁

    I don’t have those guys anywhere near me either thank goodness, I wouldn’t be able to live in an area with crocs I’d need to be on high alert 24/7 as they can be sneaky lil shizzles.

  • Amateria

    Well if you go around spouting nonsense that in any way feels threatening than I will generally like anyone else defend myself and especially everyone else on here.

    As of your two new comments your still talking out your … and not making the least amount of sense, if labs wants to delete her comments by all means I’m much too prideful to delete my comments for you sorry to disappoint!

    In any case this place is clearly not for you, since you can’t seem to grasp basic language, your still talking about what you feed your dogs why exactly?

    As for the arguing, we all do it, I’m just very honest and I like to make my opinion known even if the truth hurts, I’ve had comments removed and that’s fine whatever.

  • sharron

    didn’t say it was weird – never heard of feeding alliigator to a dog, that’s all – don’t have gators or crocs where i live

  • FurMom

    Mature, name calling. Yes, if my review had said I was unhappy with Blue, then you and everyone else could give me suggestions. You can’t grasp the fact that I have said countless times I’m happy with feeding my dogs Blue Buffalo. I simply wrote a review, stating I was happy with the food. I have to laugh at your “trolling” comment because the only trolls I see are the people who don’t feed their dogs Blue Buffalo, constantly commenting on those reviews of people who do trying to convince them of other diet options. Get out of here! If you and Cannoli and LabsRawsome don’t like Blue Buffalo products get off the review site for it. Go start your own dog diet blogs where you can practice your helping hand for individuals who WANT advise on what to feed their dogs. You look ridiculous attempting to argue with someone who doesn’t want dietary suggestions for her dogs. You, are the definition of a troll. Getting involved in a discussion that has nothing to do with you, I mean LabsRAwesome already went and deleted all of her comments…. My original post stated everyone has different opinions on what to feed their dogs and every dog is different. So feed your dog what you want, as I will mine. I did not ask for yours or anyone else’s help. I left a review for Blue Buffalo letting them know I’m happy with their product.

  • Amateria

    What’s weird about that? It’s supposedly a really good protein for dogs who can’t tolerate much of anything, it’s also not the only one I’ve seen, we have a crocodile roll here and I’ve seen brush tail as well.

    Anything within reason of course can be used as a protein when you think about it, personally when I asked my mum about getting a sample of the croc roll, she straight out said no way in hell because it’s too wild and it could have diseases and I guess it could? I wouldn’t know, I never read any stories of people’s dogs getting sick off croc.

  • Amateria

    When did I ever mention what you feed your dogs? I think there’s a troll at work here because clearly nothing anyone said was too hard to understand and yet your having trouble?

    Every persons reply on here would have anyone believe that we are here to help those that need it and there are a lot of people asking for help on here, so your understanding of what is meant to be happening in these comments is so very very wrong.

  • Amateria

    But people do come on here for help, just look at all my and other peoples replies, your the only weird person here who can’t seem to grasp anything anyone tells you lol.

  • sharron

    new formula, bayou, alligator really?

  • FurMom

    Your reply makes absolutely no sense. This is not a blog for people reaching out for help with what to feed their dogs, it’s simply a review on blue buffalo dog food. There are plenty of forums and blogs out there for people seeking advise on dog food. When I repeatedly state over and over that I am happy with what I feed my dogs and I’m not looking for other options, respect that and leave me alone.

  • Barb Smith

    Hi FurMom

    If you want to see what type of person labs really is, just take a look at her post below 😉

  • LabsRawesome

    You are ridiculous. Me saying that kibble is fast food for dogs is not rude, it’s true.
    I don’t need to be a vet to know what foods are healthy.
    That’s like saying a person can’t possibly know what foods
    are healthy for them unless they ask a nutritionist. LOL
    You are so easily offended by things that people don’t
    really even say to you.
    Maybe the internet isn’t the place for you.

  • Amateria

    It would make it impossible to help people if we were only allowed to answer based on what we feed our dogs, as many of us don’t have these brands in our country.

    So just because you say so doesn’t mean I’m going to stop posting wherever I want and helping people out.

  • FurMom

    If you would have noted in my original post, I said I was happy feeding mine Blue Buffalo and they are completely happy. How is you telling me, ANY dog eating an all kibble diet, will not have “abundant health and not thrive”, you not telling me my dogs are unhealthy? You may think your posts are not coming off as rude, but they are to me. Telling me my dogs are not healthy is irritating, you’re not my vet and have no say on if what I feed my dogs, makes them healthy or not. Also, I didn’t need you to explain his post to me, I clearly answered his question in my very first reply. I couldn’t tell if he was being sarcastic or not, so I covered both my bases, and I’m sure Cannoli is more than capable of explaining himself. For the LAST time, I didn’t get on a BLUE BUFFALO DRY DOG FOOD REVIEW BLOG, to have discussions on what foods are good or not. I simply left a review on food I AM happy with. You can feed your dogs what ever you like! If you want to have discussions with other individual who share the non kibble diet way of life, go for it, but do so on a blog where someone wants to hear other options

  • Pitlove

    Hi Cannoli-

    While it may not be a prerequisite to feeding raw/home cooked, it is well advised to seek the guidence of a nutritionist. At the very least to evaulate the current recipe/s you are using and make needed corrections.

    Given that I have seen the devastation an unbalanced homecooked diet can cause, I do not buy into the “balance over time” theory. I do not even believe holistic vet and raw advocate Dr. Karen Becker advises that. In fact she is quoted many times as saying that an unbalanced homecooked or raw diet is the worst thing you can feed your dog. Personally, I do not want to take that chance with my dogs health.They are far too important to me. However, the choices you and others make for their own pets are just that…their own.

    Here is a link to a discussion of the UC Davis study I mentioned on the forums.

    https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/homemade-dog-food-recipes-can-be-risky-business-study-finds

  • LabsRawesome

    I never said any of those things to you.
    In my original post I was simply trying
    to clear up your misunderstanding of someone
    else’s post. No one ever told you any of the
    stuff that you claim. Cannoli simply asked if
    you ever experimented with “not feeding your
    dog kibble” and you acted like he was asking if
    you starved your dogs.
    Like kibble is the only form of food for dogs.
    You might want to go back and read all the posts
    in order.
    Because your posts are the only rude argumentative
    ones.
    News flash, people talk about all different
    foods and give recommendations for different
    foods all over this site

  • FurMom

    Thank you!

  • Crazy4cats

    Again, this is a Blue Buffalo Wilderness dry food thread. Posters come here to find out and discuss their experiences with Blue. There are many discussions on the forum about raw and home cooked meals that you could check out and have discussions with posters that are interested in your information.

  • FurMom

    This site is for Blue Buffalo food reviews, you don’t even feed it to your dogs, so I’m not sure why you are on here? No, actually I am not an angry nor argumentative person, however when I simply write a review and CLEARLY stated in that review, that I was happy and everyone’s dog is different, and you proceed to basically tell me that my dogs are not healthy and possibly going to die an early death because they eat dry dog food, irritates me. I am happy with what I feed my dogs, you are happy with what you feed yours. End of discussion

  • FurMom

    Not once have I said that every single meal had to be balanced… This is a BB review blog, I didn’t not ask for anyone to give me other diet options for my dogs. I’m confused as to why you are on a BB dry kibble review site if you feed a homemade diet? I don’t have the time or energy or desire to make my own dog food, my dogs eat Blue just fine and are completely healthy and happy. I don’t need a vet to tell me how or what to make for my dogs, she suggested against it, I take my vets advice over a self proclaimed “googler”. If you are on this site to convince people to use your pups diet, go somewhere else. I have clearly stated multiple times that I am happy with feeding my dogs Blue Buffalo and not going to switch from it.

  • LabsRawesome

    It is true for all dogs because kibble is a highly processed food pellet.
    Kibble is fast food for dogs.
    I do not feed raw, and I never suggested it to you. I never tried to force anything
    down your throat.
    You seem to be a very angry and argumentative person.
    This site is for polite conversations, not accusatory, angry posts.

  • FurMom

    I’m not exactly sure how you can say that is true for ALL dogs? Like I said, I work with dogs so I see 17,18 year old dogs, who have lived off Kibble their entire lives and are extremely healthy. Last I checked, this was a Blue Buffalo review blog, not the raw-diet spokes page. I have said multiple times now, that Blue Buffalo works for my dogs, I did not come on here for you and Cannoli to try and force what you feed your dogs, down my throat. I don’t have the time or energy to make my own dog food. Blue works with my dogs, they are all extremely healthy, and happy.

  • Cannoli

    It’s not that difficult to do a raw or home cooked diet with your dog. One does not need to run a to veterinary nutritionist. Although one can reach out to them if they like, but a veterinary nutritionist should not be a prerequisite to feeding your dog the way they were intended to eat. That’s not dry cereal for the rest of their lives.

    You do not need a MD or PHD to prepare your dog’s meals. All you need is the skill to read, a computer, and google browser. This is the same concept most humans use when they decide to embark on a healthy lifestyle for their lives. We don’t all run out to see a nutritionist. We just go to our computers and begin our research journey that lasts a lifetime.

    Also this concept or as I like to call the ‘KIBBLE CONCEPT’ is that every dog meal needs to be complete and balance is ridiculous. We humans don’t do that. We would never wanna eat if that was our goal. Who the heck wants to sit down for every meal and count every single nutrient to ensure we have our recommended requirements. Instead we aim on a weekly basis to make our meals complete and balance. that’s what i do with my pup. it’s that easy

  • LabsRawesome

    I realize that. I was just trying to help you understand the op original question, since you thought he was asking if you ever starved your dogs.
    A kibble only diet is not the best way to nourish a dog. Can a dog live on kibble only? Sure, but they will not have abundant health, or thrive on kibble only.
    Have you ever thought of adding some canned or fresh foods to your dogs kibble diet?

  • FurMom

    LabsRawesome- I addressed this in the reply comment back to him! As I mentioned, I was advised against making my own food by my vet because it is too hard to get the exact nutrient level needed. I do not like the raw diet, and will never go that route. In my original post, I stated that I have had no complaints with Blue Buffalo and it works for my 4 dogs, I wasn’t fishing for other feeding suggestions.

  • LabsRawesome

    I don’t think he meant have you experimented with starving your dogs. lol
    I think his post meant have your tried other types of food.
    Like canned, raw, freeze dried, homemade, dehydrated, ect.

  • FurMom

    Thank you! Its refreshing to see other individuals on here that are not just bashing those who don’t use the same food as they do! Every dog is different! Its not different than the food we consume. People have various food allergies and what they put on our food labels may not be exactly what it is in the food and we still eat it. We find food that works for us, and we eat it. We find food that works for our dogs, they eat it. Life goes on 🙂

  • Pitlove

    Hi FurMom-

    You are absolutely right…it is very difficult to do raw without the guidance of a veterinary nutritionist. Even the vast majority of recipes that can be found online fall short of many nutrients.

    Glad you found a food that works for your dogs!

  • FurMom

    Have I experimented starving my dogs? No, I have not. Not sure if you are being sarcastic or suggesting other methods of feed (Raw Diet), which I was advised against because it is hard to get the proper nutrient level when making it yourself. Like my post states; if you don’t like how Blue Buffalo works for your dog, don’t use it. It works for mine, so I have no complaints. End of story.

  • Cannoli

    have you ever experimented not feeding them kibble?

  • FurMom

    I currently work at dog boarding facility and we see thousands of dogs each year. Everyone can sit here and debate what dog food is best and which is the worst, but the fact of the matter is that every single dog is different! We see dogs on every single dog food out there. I have 4 of my own and 3 of them eat the BB Salmon and 1 eats the Wilderness Grain Free Salmon. I, like everyone else have experimented with different brands; Wellness, Nutro, ect. For my 4 dogs, Blue works, never had any health issues from it. That being said, every dog is different. Some dogs can eat absolute crap food, like “dog chow” and be fine and others are extremely sensitive. Same goes for BB, some will be able to eat it no problem, some won’t, That’s life. Unless you are personally in the factory while ANY of these companies are making the food, you are not 100% sure that what they say is in it, is actually in it. If it doesn’t work for your dog, don’t use it. Simple

  • LabsRawesome

    I would not take advice from someone that feeds Purina
    Puppy Chow either. lol

  • Myc

    I see my response has hit a nerve. I kindly suggest you get information from sources that care more about accuracy than Facebook shares, like the two sources you presented in your original post. It is fact that the entire lawsuit is based on the language in Blue’s packaging and advertising.

  • Tommy

    Got a link for the counter sue?check out the link I posted were Blue admitted Perina was correct.

  • Tommy

    Myc, basically your wrong. Purlina proved the ingredients that blue advertises was a lie and Blue after a year of denile finally admitted Perina was right, but at the same time not taking responsibility.

  • Myc

    Purina’s lawsuit with Blue is strictly because of monetary reasons. Blue Buffalo was/is successfully taking so many of Purnia’s customers based on advertising campaigns like “the true Blue challenge”. Purnia’s thought was that if they could publicly attempt to debunk Blue as a higher quality dog food (which I believe it is) they could win many of their customers back. Especially since most customers don’t take the time to research and will make purchases off of headlines about the lawsuit. Purina is suing Blue over the language of Blue’s packaging and advertising- not what actually goes into making the food. Basically Purina is trying to make Blue look bad to get customers back and make money.

  • 2dogs

    My 2 yr old Havanese started acting sick and I noticed blood in her stools after using BB for about 2-3 weeks. The emergency vet visit was over $600 and they said nothing was wrong (what???). Decided to quit feeding her BB immediately after not giving her anything but water for 24 hours and she went back to normal in a few days. Read several other accounts where it had caused similar reactions in smaller breeds.

  • theBCnut

    FWIW, I think they are overpriced too, but I think Wellness is a better food, by a smidge, and only when they are on their A game. They have a history of QC problems, like BB.

  • Tommy

    Thought I would post this. While it isn’t directly related to these articles, the brand is. Just a little worried what might be actually in Blue’s product. I’ve been giving my Shiba Blue Wilderness Salmon Recipe Adult for a few months. I’m pretty positive, i won’t continue with the brand. Thoughts?

    To sum up the links, Parina accused Blue of lying about what they advertise is in their dog food. Blue laughed at Parina for a year until Parina had Blue’s food tested by an independent party and provided evidence. A year later, Blue finally admits to not having what they say in their ingredients. I’m just wondering, can we really trust them?

    http://truthaboutpetfood.com/blue-buffalo-responds-to-purina-lawsuit/

    http://iheartdogs.com/breaking-news-blue-buffalo-admits-to-lying-about-ingredients-here-is-why-you-should-care/

  • HBR

    I think Wellness and BB are very comparable. And for the $, I think Wellness is over priced for what it is.

  • theBCnut

    But Blue compares themselves to Purina, not Wellness. I don’t put them in the same category as either Purina or Wellness though. I gladly pay more for foods that I consider to be much better. I don’t pay that much for Blue.

  • HBR

    Their supplier sent them chicken by product meal, miss labeled as chicken meal. BB paid for a quality product, but didn’t get what they paid for.

  • HBR

    Most every dry food is extruded, at high temperatures. Sounds like BB just wasn’t right for your dog…it happens.

  • HBR

    I would not take the advice of anyone who feeds Purina Puppy Chow. Yes, allergies are from protein, but wheat, corn and soy have proteins, not just meats. And if a food contains those, not so good, ingredients, they don’t need to put as much meat protein in the food. The protein % that’s on the bag doesn’t differentiate protein from meat or protein from grains. Wheat corn and soy are major allergens so should be avoided. Plus, Purina sources the majority of their ingredients from China.

  • HBR

    Actually, BB is no more expensive than other quality foods. Have you priced a bag of Wellness lately?

  • Susan

    Hi, read the ingredients in the Wellness then in the Blue Wilderness, there would have been an ingredient that your dog was sensitive too causing itchy paws & hot spots…..

  • Jeremy

    Thank you for your help! Much appreciated!

  • theBCnut

    Best is rotating through several different foods. Grain free or grain inclusive should not be an issue unless you see your dog is having a problem with grain, so use both. JMO, but a great deal of the price you pay for Blue products is because you are paying for their advertising, of which they do a LOT, not because the food is in any way superior to any of the other highly rated foods.

  • theBCnut

    Allergies can be from any food that has protein in it, not just meat sources. Almost every food source has protein in it, so almost every food source can cause allergic reactions. And there has been some recent research that found some allergic reactions are actually to fats. Hot spots are known to be associated with food reactions.

  • CoolSpring Labradors

    We have used for over 30 years Purina Puppy Chow for the puppys….since this dog is going to grow into a large dog sooner than later, one thing about Labs they are completely grown and mature at 3-5 years depending on the lines…prior to that they are giant puppys or complete “air heads”. Never go above 30/20 for protein and fat…if he/she is not active then 26/14 ish is fine…..I would not go grain free it’s all marketing garbage….as allergy is from proteins such as chicken, turkey being the worst etc…..salmon based foods are good for seniors etc. If you see Menadione near the end of the ingredients usually, then its made by Purina, I would avoid. We have had excellent results with Eukanuba Performance 30/20 if you neuter him, best if your not a show/breeder for overall health then just watch his/her weight,,,,,mix with some warm water and your good to go. Grain free is foo-foo unless the dog has allergy issues that tend to be more passed on in their genes then environmental……We don’t use BB unless its Turkey and Potato Limited ingredient Blue Basics its our No1 go to for skin issues….if your dog gets a hot spot the trick is buy a “personal hair cutting kit” shave spot and cut the fur away near skin. Then take some Dial Anti Bacterial Soap (Its Yellow) use a warm washcloth and clean area well. The spot will heal up in a day and dry out scab and your done….no Vet Bills !

  • sandy

    Use the calculator near the bottom of this article:

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

    Large breed pups need controlled calcium and a food that has the right calcium to phosphorus ratio.

  • Jeremy

    Would the blue Buffalo wilderness puppy dry food be good to give to my 9 week old black lab? Thinking blue Buffalo wilderness or blue Buffalo life protection. Or Performatrin ultra, Nutro ultra or taste of the wild. Both blue Buffalo wilderness and taste of the wild are grain free. There’s lots of controversy about grain free or gran inclusive foods. What do you think would be best?

  • CoolSpring Labradors

    Their Duck and Potato Limited Ingredient Grain Free is the absolutely #1 product for dogs with allergies bar none. They counter sued Purina and won. Do your homework. The ingredients that made their way into the food was packaged by the supplier in error and sent to them in packaging labeled wrong. That is exactly what happened…..Purina lost their bid since the company has made a dent in their profits. Purina use Menadione BiSulfate in their food….look up this crap and look for it where they private label food like Rachel Rays, Sam Club etc….it banned in Europe for Human and Animal Consumption.

  • Jo

    Unfortunately, my dog didn’t do good with any of the BB lines. He had heavy stools, seemed to have gastric upset and his allergies got worse. I could never get out of the rep if the food was cooked at high temps which removes most of the nutrition. They just told me that the Life Source Bits had the vitamins. That is not what I was hoping. In any case, every time after a meal my dog would itch and chew on himself. He has lost lots of hair around his eyes and muzzle. His coat is not soft. Honestly from day one of switching to BB I have not been a fan.

  • fedup

    I feed my dog Blue Wilderness Small Breed. I find it an excellent food. She was eating Wellness but it gave her hot spots and she started paw licking. Since I switched to Blue Wilderness the hot spots were gone in a week and her paw licking has all but stopped.

  • I know there is a lot of politics going on with the BB brand, but my dogs love the stuff. I’ve tried a few different brands, slowly introducing the new food each time. I’ve tried Natural Balance LID, Wellness Complete, Wellness Core, Solid Gold, and a few others I don’t remember. Natural Balance LID duck/potato gave my dog ear infections. Wellness Complete gave my dog diarrhea and needed to pee and poop many times per day. My dogs didn’t like the Wilderness Core ocean, they ate it but it seemed it linger in the bowl for a whole day before they touched it. The Solid Gold wee-bits seemed good, they liked it, but my dog that chews her paws really started noticeably chewing more often than normal. So far the only brand that my dogs both like and doesn’t seem to cause problems is the BB Wilderness.

  • peachnectar

    I use the Salmon dry food. I use it for my cats and dogs. Neither get sick, have any skin issues. They have plenty of energy for playing and are happy as well as healthy.

  • Cheryl Sovern

    Yes, I was a big supporter is Blue Buffalo, but went on PACER (online federal court docket which is open to the public for a fee) and read the report of the expert who ran tests on 5 Blue Buffalo dry foods. The expert indicated, among other things, that there was corn in the food. I switched to another brand now and am disgusted by this Blue Buffalo company.

  • Private

    Recent lawsuit by Purina proves Big Buffalo has been lying to the public for years and using substantial amounts of poultry by–product meal. What a sleezy company and why has the CEO not been fired and put in jail?!

  • trevorsalienarms

    Yeah, gotta go with what works best ultimately. Sick dogs are no fun. Our GSDs are fairly ambivalent as to what we put in front of them; and we would of course like to think it’s “the best” for them. In reality, I’m not sure that can be really quantified when no discernible symptoms or health problems are apparent.

  • Mustangjeff

    I’m not a BB fanboi by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t subscribe to brand loyalty, and I go by the rule that the best product for the best dollar gets my money.

    I won’t claim to have read every legal document pertaining to the lawsuit, but I’ve read most of the recaps posted on other sites. This is my understanding of how things went down.

    Purina tested BB products, and filed a suit of false advertising because the food contained “by-products”. BB advertises that it doesn’t use them.

    BB denied the use of “by-products”. Eventually (I’m assuming after their own internal investigation) conceded that there was “by-product” in many of their foods, and named a supplier as being at fault. I haven’t read anything anywhere that states they knew they were using “by-products” the whole time and admitted to purposely misleading customers. It’s possible that they did know, but it’s also possible they didn’t.

    I also don’t see their food as costing $10-$15 more per bag than “comparable” brands. Sure it’s a lot more expensive than old roy or dog chow, but it’s pretty comparable in price to the other premium foods on the market. If price was no option, I would probably feed Orijen, but that stuff is $30 per bag more than BB Wilderness.

    I do agree that their is no overall BEST food. There is just a best food for your particular pet.

    A few weeks ago I made an attempt to switch my two Great Danes to Fromm gold. Two days after starting their transition, they both started vomiting, and had bloody diarrhea that lasted a week. After a couple weeks on boiled hamburger and rice, they are now back on BB Wilderness and doing fine. My feeling is that something in the Fromm did not sit well with them, but I’m not going to claim that Fromm is killing dogs like the typical crazies.

    “In an agreement where Blue Buffalo admits no wrong doing, the pet food company has agreed to a $32 million dollar settlement to “eliminate the uncertainties, burden and expense of further litigation.” The consumer lawsuit claimed “that certain Blue Buffalo products were not consistent with the ‘True Blue Promise’”. The amount that each class member receives will depend on the total amount of Blue Buffalo products purchased.

    No pets became ill, and no pets died due to Blue Buffalo products containing by-product meal instead of chicken meal (to my knowledge). This lawsuit is (basically) reimbursement to consumers who trusted the brand was by-product free – when it was discovered some of the Blue Buffalo pet foods did indeed contain by-products.”

  • Caton Susan

    LINK TO LAWSUIT WHERE BLUE BUFFALO FINALLY ADMITTED THEY USED INGREDIENT CHICK BY PRODUCT MEAL WHICH WAS NOT ON THE INGREDIENT LABEL
    http://iheartdogs.com/breaking-news-blue-buffalo-admits-to-lying-about-ingredients-here-is-why-you-should-care/

  • trevorsalienarms

    No, they actually admitted in court that the press release they posted on their website was false. They were open about the ingredients from suppliers being off-spec, but plainly stated none of that made it to store shelves, when in fact it absolutely did, and they knew it. Hence the agreement to pay the settlement.

    I don’t really believe any for profit company, in the dog food business or otherwise are altruistic entities. Stiff competition, rising costs and shrinking market segments make for sketchy decision-making all around.

    But this company absolutely hammered home via their marketing that they were going to be different; that it couldn’t or wouldn’t happen because they were superior and that’s why you paid roughly 10 to 15 bucks more per bag than other brands.

    I highly doubt any of the by-product that may have slipped through really hurt any animals beyond the superficial at most, and in reality, it’s probably no big deal in terms of actual damage done. To your point, “by products” can be lots of things and are everywhere.

    I think however that it’s at least a good reason for everyone that absolutely loses their minds internet arguing about which dog food is “best” take a chill pill and consider that at the end of the day, these are all corporate entities, using very similar ingredients, very similar testing protocols and are by and large putting out decent products. There is no “absolute best”, as all are y just as imperfect as another and no one really knows if the label on the bag means as much as we hope it does. If it works for your pet, awesome. If not, choose something else. But these people who act like they have a pet food testing lab in their basements at home are seriously out of their gourds. Suddenly, everyone’s an expert. especially the BB cognoscenti.

    Also, it pays to keep in mind that 50 years ago, there were no “special” dog foods, yet our beloved family pets still managed to live nice long lives. There’s no magic in BB, nor Purina, nor whatever brand one might rally behind to shout about online.

    As long as whatever you choose to feed your dog is keeping him or her in relative good health, keep on keeping on. It’ll be awhile before we go back to BB though, if ever…I just don’t like the smugness of trying to deceive customers, especially given their marketing, though I’m also sure they’re not the first and won’t be the last.

  • Mustangjeff

    From everything I’ve read, BB has never admitted to knowingly selling food with “by-product” meal. The key word there is knowingly. It can be argued that they should do random checks against their suppliers, and maybe now they will. Purina has made it CRYSTAL clear that they aren’t claiming “by-products” are bad ingredients. They can’t because virtually every product they sell has by-products. This is about lost market share, and false advertising. Its a bit like the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. Look at the graphics on a bag of Beneful and you tell me who should be sued for false advertising.

    I’ve spent over $3.2K on Blue Buffalo products over the past two years. I’m not outraged that the food I fed had some meat by-products. I’m a little miffed that I didn’t get what I was paying for, but I’m not concerned that my Danes are going to get sick or die. I actually found a website that allows me to make a claim to recoup some money. I printed out $3300 worth of receipts, and I can get a maximum of $200. We’ll see what I get.

    As far as the food goes. My Great Danes do fabulous on it. It seems like people who aren’t even using the food are outraged making the assumption that the lawsuit means the food is killing dogs. It’s about money, market share, and causing issues for a competitor. If you think Purina is trying to help out the average Joe customer by warning them against a dangerous product.. You haven’t been paying attention.

  • Nelson N Katrina Leon

    I bought this food for my French bulldog pup as a replacement for Royal Canin. Within a month he had pimples, diarrhea and major loss of coat. Replaced to Rayne Clinical Nutrition and noticed instantly improvements but doesn’t seem to like the size or the crunch.

  • DogFoodie

    And all the while the poor dogs are stumbling around and can hardly walk. Then only to develop arthritis and spinal issues. Poor things. It’s so awful. They call it breeding. I call it animal cruelty.

  • Pitlove

    Apparently the truth has run Maggie off as all of her comments are deleted.

    Definitely makes me question the AKC breeding community when “one of their own” has no interest in current research on feeding large breed pups.

  • theBCnut

    No, no, no, he has a Doctorite, it’s different. She’s listening to an expert in Criminology and psychology to make her breeding and feeding decisions! What a hoot!

  • Yes, I am aware of all of these things, hencemy statement that how it is treated is on a case by case basis because there are sso many factors involved, both nutritionally and environmentally, not to mention genetics. However there is a strong corelation between lowering the protien and how quickly a dog recovers, which of course also depends on how long it had been affected before it was addressed, weight of dog, environment and flooring etc… no one really knows what causes is, but I can tell you since we began lowering the protein at 3-4 months, my instances of any of my dogs getting it to begin with have been greatly reduced to almost never, and the few cases I have had were very short lived. I am not going to argue with anyone about readearch, because unless it was done spicifically on GSDs, it is not valid for comparison, but years of experience with great results, not from uneducated laymen either, as there are some very prominent vets and PHDs involved activley in our parent club. We are leading the charge in identifying DNA markers for common genetic diseases so that breeding stock can be tested prior to breeding, and the person leading the way for that was asked by AKC to design and develop AKCs DNA program. So when people say they are taking the side of “clinical studies from certified research program over what our collective years of breeding and research done on our own breed, keep in mind some of our people created that technology, so it is not unreliable but more credible and valid for our breed than a lot of them. please do not get offended folks that I have a brain and a mind and have drawn my own conclusions that differ from what you have been told to think or lead to believe is the one right answer to all issues for all breeds
    .

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thank you el d!!! I found it suspicious that everything kept mentioning his education credentials without the specific field they were obtained in. Well done! 😉

  • aimee

    I can do the calculations for you but I need to know what percentages as fed you want me to use?

  • Shawna

    Thanks aimee but I think you misunderstood my question. I didn’t ask how to find the numbers but what they are. 🙂

  • aimee

    Hi Maggie,

    As I have always had Labs, you piqued my curiosity as to the incidence of hip dysplasia in the two breeds.

    Though OFA data has it’s limits, in German Shepherds the incidence was 19% over the past 40 years and 18% between 2006 and 2010 with 7.2 % as excellent

    Lab’s incidence over 40 yeas was 11.6 % and 8% over the more recent 4 years between 2006-2010 with 25.3% rated as excellent.

    But getting back to developmental orthopedic diseases, in general it could be said that they all have a underlying problem with the coordinated removal and disposition of bone. ( Note I think carpal laxity problems have a different cause)

    A high calcium diet has been shown to effect the hormones that guide this process.

    Schoenmakers fed Great Dane pups a high calcium diet for 3 weeks during early neonatal period in addition to their mother’s milk and the hormone levels didn’t normalize until months later. All dogs exposed to the high calcium diet developed pano.

    “no other dietary cause has been found thus far ” Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition Fascetti and Delaney 2012

    The above book has an excellent section on the nutritional development of orthopedic disease. I’d encourage you to read it

  • Hi Maggie Case, welcome to DFA!

    Dr Battaglia’s Doctorate is in Criminology Corrections and Sociology, his Masters Degree is in Psychology, and his Bachelors degree is in Social Welfare.

    His education has nothing to do with dog breeding, or dog genetics and it is a very far stretch to refer to him as;

    “a bonafied expert on the subject matter who has worldwide recognition for his expertise in canine genetics and development”

  • Crazy4dogs

    Yeah, it must be the protein… 🙁

  • DogFoodie

    A quick FB search will give you the sad answer. 🙁

  • aimee

    Which percentages are you referring to?

    To determine calorie weighted percentage simply assume you have 100 grams of the diet then the percentages as fed become the number of grams you have of each macronutrient. Multiply the grams of each nutrient by the kcals/gram ( 3.5 for protein and carb, 8.5 for fat) then add for total calories. Next divide the number of kcals contributed by each nutrient by the total for the calorie weighted % .

  • Shawna

    Thanks for the suggestion aimee. I will take it under consideration.

    What is the calorie weighted basis for those percentages fed aimee?

  • Shawna

    “Dogs are designed to eat digestible protein, not necessarily high protein.”

    That is actually a very very good point. That said, if you lower protein you have to either increase fat or carbohydrates. Dogs are certainly not designed to eat high carbohydrate diets. I’d much rather see higher protein then higher carbs, even in a kibble diet.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I don’t mean to be rude, but are you breeding for the straight or roach back? It seems the dogs with the roach back and sickle hocks are all too present and winning in the show ring these days.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I agree completely! It’s interesting that he has a Phd & Doctorate, but it doesn’t say in what although it appears he does research in genetics. The GSD, particularly the nonworking lines, have the most horribly bred conformation I’ve seen in recent years with the dogs with a roach back and sickle hocks winning Best in Show! 🙁

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi HBR,

    I do agree with almost everything you said, but I do feed high protein formulas when I feed a kibble/can mixture (I feed fresh or raw daily meals also) and while my dogs are fairly active, with long, fast walks on a mostly daily basis (winters are tough) they are not agility or working dogs and they do well with a higher protein. I do understand that many people don’t even do active walking with their dogs might do better with a moderate protein and fat level, but only if they are true couch potatoes. I would decrease fat before protein in inactive dogs as less protein tends to increase muscle loss.

  • theBCnut

    Considering how completely messed up AKC GSDs are, I wouldn’t listen to anyone who claimed to be a genetics and health expert if they supported what AKC breeding has done. And that doesn’t even speak to the fact that that still doesn’t mean they are an expert in nutrition or are in any way up to date on the current research into large breed nutrition.

  • DogFoodie

    Actually, the cause of panosteitis is largely unknown. There seems to be, however, a strong correlation between over-nutrition and pano. Even a large breed puppy that is a little heavy, while not necessarily overweight, is more likely to suffer pano then a puppy that’s kept lean. A puppy that spends an inordinate amount of time on a hard surface also seems more likely to develop orthopedic issues as well.

  • Pitlove

    It’s not “what I think” or “my opinion”- it’s fact based on research and feed trials from multiple highly crediable sources.

  • Terri Lemmel

    I have 3 dogs who have exclusively been fed Blue Wilderness adult chicken formula as follows: 5 lb Chihuahua for 6 years, 35 lb Beagle mix for 2 years, another 6 lb Chihuahua for 1 year. All are thriving and have soft lustrous coats. The first Chihuahua is a senior (they’re all rescues) and I don’t know his exact age, but he is at least 11. If Blue was no good, I think he’d be dead by now!

  • HBR

    I completely agree with you. I actually feed my dog prey model raw, but I do have a small bag of Wilderness and a few cans in the house in case I get lazy or the weather’s too bad for him to eat outside. Having said that, I also work in a few pet supply stores that sell good quality dog food, Blue Buffalo being one of those brands. I’d rather see someone feed their dog premium ‘processed’ food over garbage like Iams or anything Purina, because at least the dog will be eating healthier. I also encourage owners to add either canned, or ‘real’ food to their dog’s diet. Because this post is about BB’s Wilderness, I stand by my previous posts. The number one reason dogs may have a problem eating this food is because it has too much protein. Dogs are designed to eat digestible protein, not necessarily high protein.

  • Thankfully I don’t really care what you think so thank you for the advice but I will take years of breeding dogs and close relationships with veterinarians and people very involved with the research in our specific breed over someone on a dog food comment. Normally I do not even bother to respond to any of these things but I guess I just felt like putting my two cents and take it or leave it you don’t have to like it or believe it because we are in America and I’m free to have my own opinions regardless of whether you think they are valid. Have a wonderful day and the best of luck with your dogs

  • Both, but mainly conformation in recent years due to not having the time to invest in agility or obedience, but we have many of our dogs that end up in performance homes competing in agility obedience and tracking , or occasionally in a service dog/police dog home

  • Crazy4dogs

    And that’s part of the problem with everyone today. Just dump some kibble in a bowl and call it a day. Just eat some premade highly processed food and call it healthy because it has the added vitamins and minerals. Real natural food is what every living thing should be eating.

    Sorry, but I had to rant.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi Maggie,

    You may have addressed this question earlier and I apologize if it’s a repeat, but do you have conformation or working GSD’s?

  • Pitlove

    Pano and every other disorder you mentioned has nothing to do with protein levels. That is the truth based on current research from at LEAST the last 20 years.

  • One of our most prominent members and previous President for numerous terms of the GSDCA holds a Doctorite and a Masters Degree and has spearheaded canine research and development on genetics and breeding better dogs, is currently a Director for AKC , and has served as committee chairperson for many important GSDCA and AKC committees addressing genetics and health issues amongst other things…in fact, AKC enlisted his help and expertise in genetics to create and develop their DNA Program. I believe that this makes Dr. Carmen Battaglia a bonafied expert on the subject matter who has worldwide recognition for his expertise in canine genetics and development , and as such a reliable source of credible information.

    http://breedingbetterdogs.com/about-us

  • See comments in my reply above in regards to GSDs

  • Believe it or not hip dysplasia is not the main concern of most German Shepherd breeders because we are already aware of that and have already been working on that for years so genetically that is not the biggest concern if you’re using sound stock. It is something that we have already been conscientiously trying to prevent by careful breeding and so it is much less of a problem then it was in years past or than it is say in labs or golden retrievers. Most hip dysplasia to be frank comes from environmental causes such as listed in your article like overfeeding /keeping your puppy too fat, over exercising, doing steep stairs on a daily basis, running a puppy as in jogging at two young of an age when their bones are still soft , etc. , so it is very important that a reader relays this information to a new puppy owner so that they are aware and do not do this to give the puppy their best chance.
    What we are more concerned with are some of the other development issues that can be a result largely from too much protein such as panosteosis or carpal subluxation (Hyperextension or subluxation/luxation of the pasterns), which have been improved or reversed by feeding specific nutritional values for protein and other vitamins and minerals such as calcium and magnesium which generally are tailored on an individual basis for each dog depending on their size, structure , bone density, weight, environmental factors such as flooring type, lifestyle, and degree to which they are affected.

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    Just a suggestion. When you cite these studies you write “There’s two really good research articles in the Journal of Nutrition showing high protein and low carb with moderate fat…

    It might be better to give the actual % of protein, carb and fat as everyone’s idea of what constitutes a high, moderate or low protein, fat and carb levels is different.

    For example you gave the protein content of the diet “The high protein in this diet was 52%.” I’d recommend you give the whole profile of that diet 52% protein 22% carb and 8 % fat

    I’d call that diet high protein low fat not high protein moderate fat. You can see where the confusion comes in.

    Alternatively you could state what your criteria are for low, moderate and high fat diets. The diets in the papers vary from 8-11% fat. So you could say “I consider low fat diets to have up to 7% fat, 8-11% fat to be moderate fat diets and 12 and over high fat. Or whatever your criteria are.

  • aimee

    Hi Maggie,

    Most of the research on large breed growth has been done on Great Danes. Here is a link to research that addressed protein levels http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1941203

    This link is more general but cites the above study http://www.lgd.org/library/Growth_large%20breed_final_July2014.pdf

    Initially it wasn’t known what factor contributed to developmental orthopedic problems like pano… but it has been shown that protein isn’t the cause.

    However I wonder if protein got “tapped” for being the cause for a different reason. Due to the way ingredients for dog food are sourced, the protein from meat can also be associated with a lot of bone and fat.

    I’ve seen a correlation between high protein meat based diets and calcium levels which exceed the recommended amount for large breed growth. High meat based protein diets also tend to have higher fat levels in them.

    So it makes me wonder… when breeder started recommending limiting protein…. were the diets effective not because of the lower protein content but because of the lower calcium and fat levels they contained?

    It is known now that it is the calcium and the energy content that contributes to growth problems …protein has been cleared. Yet the “limit protein” advice continues to be handed down generation from generation.

    I’d encourage you club to be familiar with the current recommendation for feeding large breed puppies. There are some excellent choices available that weren’t historically available when “limit protein” and “feed adult food” may have been the best options.

    Feeding a puppy food formulated for large breed puppy growth is the current recommendation.

  • Shawna

    There’s two really good research articles in the Journal of Nutrition showing high protein and low carb with moderate fat as an excellent weight loss solution.

    The high protein in this diet was 52%. “High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs1,2” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

    “Weight Loss in Obese Dogs: Evaluation of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet1,2” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1685S.full

    There’s no doubt that lower protein / fat, higher in fiber foods do work for weight loss, dogs just seem to be WAY happier on the high protein food.

  • Shawna

    Hi Maggie,

    I believe Pitlove was addressing the broad statement you made “The biggest problem with high protein is wi your larger breeds, like German Shepherds…”

    Large breeds, including German Shepherds, are not actually affected by excess protein in that way though. Here’s some excellent data. There’s LOTS more current info on this topic.

    “Optimal feeding of large breed puppies

    Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS
    Resident, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
    Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
    School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

    The same group went on to investigate the individual dietary components and demonstrated that dietary protein level had no effect on the development of osteochondrosis (Nap, et. al,
    1991). For some reason, dietary protein level continues to be incriminated by some owners, breeders, and veterinarians, despite the lack of supportive evidence.

    In contrast to protein, excessive calories and inappropriate amounts of calcium have both been shown to negatively influence optimal skeletal development in puppies.” http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.pdf

    It’s unfortunate that your breed clud is spreading outdated and incorrect info but it happens all the time.

  • Pitlove

    Disqus messed up my comment so I’ll write again.

    I prefer to trust those who hold ph.D’s in the field of nutrition and are board certified, not breeders or dog clubs operating on old and out of date information who may or may not be testing their stock and who may or may not be producing quality working dogs. GSD’s are no different than any other large or giant breed. They need to be fed a diet with restricted calcium and not overfed to maintain an ideal weight while growing. High or low protein will not have a single effect on growth so long as you are restricting calories and calcium.

  • Pitlove

    I choose to trust the people who hold ph.D’s in this particular field, not breeders who may or may not be testing their stock and may or may not be producing quality litters meant for working and not the show ring. And yes all large breeds no matter what breed need to be fed with restricted calories and calcium to grow the proper way. Protein can be fed high or low- it will not change the outcome of the rate of growth so long as the other areas are covered.

  • Well that’s not what our German Shepherd dog club of America research shows, as GSDs develop differently than most breeds…in fact it is impossible to have a generalized statement like that about all dogs because not all dogs are the same in every breed develops in its own unique way and has its own special issues that they have to look out for, as any breeder who cares about the breed knows and will pass the info along to new puppy owners.

  • Pitlove

    It’s been known for some time now in the field of canine nutrition that protein has no effect on the growth rates of large and giants breeds. Current research shows that it is in fact excessive calories and calcium that are the true cause of orthopedic disorders in growing large and giant breeds- not protein.

  • The biggest problem with high protein is wi your larger breeds, like German Shepherds…too much protein while they are puppies causes many growth issues such as panosteosis or weak pasterns. We switch to adult food at 3 months and limit the protein to 22-24% while they go through the rapid growth spurts that happen between 3 months to about 18 months, and sometimes even down to 20% for a very large male that is currently having issues.

  • Maggie

    Mutts rule!

  • Maggie

    Yeah, that’s pretty funny that Purina sued Blue.

  • Maggie

    A good solution is the Healthy Weight formula.

  • Maggie

    Wow, that’s interesting to know. Maybe they should lower their prices if their food contains meat by produects

  • Maggie

    Another good Grain free BW food is the Freedom line. I believe it has Not as much protein as Wilderness line. But still.a good amt

  • Maggie

    Maybe BB should lower there prices if they use by products in their food.

  • Maggie

    My 3 1/2 yearold Golden ret/lab mix goes Cucu for this food. I have to feed her about half on healthy weight however or she gains too much weight. She not the most active dog..But, her energy level has increased since starting her on a blend of BW Healthy weight and Wlhole Earth Farms chicken and turkey. The reason why I don’t feed her all BW is because it’s very expensive. I do order my dog food online, for considerably less than the pet supply stores.
    BTW, she’s on a grain free diet because she had tremendous gas, bad body odor and some diarrhea as a puppy. The vet told us to put her on a grain free diet. After I.switched her, it made a world of difference.

  • trevorsalienarms

    **Update December 11, 2015**Blue Buffalo has settled a class action lawsuit for 32 million dollars.

    “Blue has repeatedly denied claims that their food contains meat by-products, but the company made a startling admission in court on Wednesday. According to a press release from Purina, Blue acknowledged that their products contained a “substantial” and “material” amount of by-products.”

  • HBR

    The lawsuit isn’t for BB killing animals. BB was unknowingly sold chicken by product meal labeled as chicken meal. They advertise that their products don’t contain by products. The lawsuit is for false advertising. After the lawyers get their cut from the settlement, every consumer, if they can prove they bought the food, will get about $7.

  • Geno Angelino

    rEALLY THEN WHY DID i JUST SIGN UP FOR THE NEW LAWSUIT THAT IS ACTIVE and underway right now for them KILLING animals. You a scam and full of crap, bet your a Lintard too.

  • Pitlove

    So if a customer came in and asked, how could I help my dog lose weight? What advice would you give them?

  • HBR

    I too, work in the food industry. I’ll stick by my statement; I won’t recommend a high protein food to someone who has an inactive dog, Because along with the higher protein comes higher fat. You can believe what you want.

  • Shawna

    High protein is exactly what you want to feed a dog not only to avoid weight gain but also to help them lose weight.

  • Pitlove

    I work at a small family owned pet store and I recommend Kefir (human probiotic) to customers all the time. It costs about 3$ at Walmart and takes no more than a few seconds to measure and pour on top of their food. The customers at my store are thankful and happy to hear there is an easy solution to their dogs GI problems. I guess our customers are above average pet owners. Who knows?

    Your not wanting to recommend Blue Wilderness to people with inactive dogs based on the high protein is incorrect is what I’m explaining. My dog was an example of why you are incorrect.

  • HBR

    Sounds like a lot of work to be able to feed a food that may not be the right formula for your dog ( or any dog) . While probiotics and protein and brand rotation are good ideas, your average dog owner doesn’t want to be bothered. They want to be able to dump a few cups of dry food into a bowl and be done. I’m glad your dog does well eating high protein/fat. I still wouldn’t recommend Wilderness for a dog that doesn’t get a good amount of exercise.

  • Pitlove

    I fed Wilderness to my pitbull who was not active outside of walks and he did not gain weight at all. I have also fed him foods that on a dry matter basis are 40% protein (EVO & Orijen) and still he is lean muscle. Actually, I can feed him any level of protein and fat and he maintains an ideal weight with low to no body fat. Making sure a dog is burning as many calories as they are taking in is how you maintain a lean fit dog. You do that by adjusting meal portions based on activity level.

    Digestive issues are due to a lack of variety of microflora in the gut, usually from eating one specific food, for even a few months to a few years (obviously talking about otherwise healthy dogs, not dogs afflicted with IBS etc). Also the gut only being exposed to one nutrient profile for all that time. If you introduce a new nutrient profile with higher percentages than the dog is used to, yes they will have digestive issues. Probiotics and digestive supplements fix that quickly in an otherwise healthy dog. Also using a moderate protein food as a stepping stone helps and then moving to higher protein levels.

    Edit: Oh and also my dog has no digestive problems when he eats high protein foods.

  • HBR

    No, I wasn’t thinking high fat. For many dogs, a high protein diet can cause digestive issues. Couple high protein with high fat, and you have an overweight dog. I would never recommend Wilderness for a dog that doesn’t get a lot of exercise.

  • Pitlove

    High protein is not only for active dogs. You’re thinking of high fat.

  • HBR

    My dog does great on this food. We hike daily and seeing how he’s a high energy dog, I wanted a food that’s high protein and grain free. It’s not right for your average dog and because of the high protein, may cause drizzly poops.

  • HBR

    I love tapioca and eat it all the time. How much is ‘high enough amounts’?

  • HBR

    Consumer affairs website site is a sham site. You’ve been taken in and fed a boat load of crap

  • theBCnut

    Stop spamming this site!

  • JohnDakota

    I’ve been feeding my puppy Blue Buffalo, grain-free, wilderness puppy food for the last month and he’s hardly had a normal movement. More often than not it’s diarrhea. Fortunately it doesn’t contain blood.

    After my vet determined it was the food, I did a little more research in to the ingredient composition and noticed the tapioca is derived from cassava. Honestly… cassava?!? Why would this company choose cassava to make their tapioca is beyond me. Cassava produces cyanogenic glycosides, and without careful preparation, and post processing chemical analysis, they can’t be sure the tapioca lacks cyanogens. In high enough amounts the cyanogenic glucosides (linamarin and lotaustralin) could absolutely produce digestive problems, and at the very least diarrhea. Cassava produces these molecules to protect themselves against things that eat them, for god sakes!

    How would I know this? I have a PhD in plant biochemistry. If you don’t believe me, here’s a reference from the primary literature.

    White, W., et al. 1998, “Cyanogenesis in Cassava,” Plant Physiology, 116(4), p. 1219

  • Geno Angelino

    DISGUSTING COMPANY IN EVERY WAY!! Poisoning our PETS!! Read more here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/blue_buffalo.html cats & dogs are dropping like flies from the garbage, new lawsuit on the way.
    KILLING cats & dogs!! SCUMBAG TRASH!!!

  • Dr. Jeff Kapp

    Most Veterinarians are the worst sources of nutritional information.

  • Neil Savage

    I was feeding my dog blue buffalo for about 6 months then one day he got bloody diarrhea and refused to eat the food anymore. Switched to honest kitchen and he improved immediately. Higher tempo and drastic coat improvements.

  • Leslie D

    I switched to Purina Beyond which is natural. I’m not sure of the quality and have been searching, but he’s doing just fine on it. It’s first ingredient is meat, no by-product junk. My sister feeds Merrill, and I may switch to that. I would get your dog off of it. Mine was losing weight because he just didn’t want it. I’m sure you may have seen it, but there is a class action lawsuit against Blue Buffalo. Blue Buffalo did admit they use by-product and who knows what else. I also don’t buy anything from China if I know it was from there. There have been too many sick and dying dogs from their treats especially the chicken treats

  • Michael Bentley

    What food did you switch him too??

    I have my old lady on their senior, and I have noticed she isn’t very fond of it anymore…

  • Leslie D

    About a year and a half ago, I had to quit feeding Blue Buffalo. Because of Blue Buffalo, my dog had the diarrhea really bad and was throwing up. It got to a point he quit eating Blue Buffalo. I switched his dog food and he improved immediately. I did research and found many other people had this same problem. I told my sister to quit feeding her dog Blue Buffalo too, but she still fed it for a couple months. Her dog too got the diarrhea really bad. She took her dog to the vet and in the end they found it was the dog food. Her dog has been fine after they quit feeding her Blue Buffalo. How can this dog food still rate 5 stars? The 5 stars was the reason I fed my dog this.

  • Jane

    our veterinarian said “BLUE BUFFALO is to salty”

  • Bobby dog

    Glad you found a food that works for your pup!

  • Kelly Taylor

    We have shelties and the 2 older ones had skin allergies. The male was bad. He would chew fur off of his one front left and licked his paws all the time. We switched them over to this and within 2 weeks the male was no longer pulling his fur out and stopped licking his paws. Plus all 3 of them love it and gobble it down. This dog food or any dog food may not be right for every ones dog, but we wanted ours off of grains and it is agreeing with them and they love it.

  • Cortni Schaedler

    buttttt…..there was literally no reason for Purina to sue them when they sell dog food with corn and by products and all the crap you can think of in it!! hypocritical… i tried many top brand foods with my dog…he was malnourished when i got him..i started him on Blue Buffalo and he has more energy than ever! I can see he feels great. That’s what counts for me!

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    Champion recalled dog food in 2011 for salmonella. Who handles dog food? Oh people. I guess people should not be worried about getting mad cow disease because only dogs handle dog food. They pay for it at the store, bring it open, and open the bag without any aid from people.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    I hate to break it to you. The three recalls from Champion and action was equal to Diamond. Sorry if this is to complicated for you to understand.

  • InkedMarie

    i hate to break it to you but not all recalls are equal. the reason for the recall, the companys practices etc mean alot. for alot of us, that means diamond and evangers are out.

  • theBCnut

    The bone shards would only cut a hand that the owner of the hand worked hard at getting cut. Dogs eat bones just fine. Dogs and people are not in danger of getting mad cow disease from dogs eating contaminated dog food. People get sick and die of salmonella from contaminated dog food, so that is the bigger, more serious threat. Diamond allows contaminated food to be out on the market for weeks after the first cases of salmonella are reported. I don’t even have a problem with dog food being contaminated with salmonella, because I treat all dog food as if it is contaminated and wash after handling it, and healthy dogs can handle salmonella. I have a problem with how Diamond handles ALL of their recalls. And I live in the area covered by the Diamond factory that has all the recalls. I read the FDA report on their last dog food recall, so I know what their common practices were. I’m glad you are happy with their food, but I expect more from the company that I trust with my dogs’ health.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    I guess bone shards that are so protruding that cut owners hands, salmonella, and mad cow diseased products are not as near serious to salmonella.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    3 recalls equals 3 recalls.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    Yes Champion has had 3 recalls, irradiated, and food with bone shards are extremely serious.
    And Champion had an salmonella recall in 2011. So one salmonella recall is not equal to another salmonella recall.
    Makes sense.

  • theBCnut

    No Champion has not had as many recalls as Diamond, nor have the ones that they have had been anywhere near as serious.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    How can you say Champion is Fabulous and say Diamond is not? Champion has had just as many recalls as Diamond.

  • Anne Main

    Our dog got so sick from this food !!! He had terrible diarrhea and was vomiting. We took him to the vet, and sure enough – $500 later – I figured out it was the food. The minute we switched him to something else – this nightmare stopped.
    Don’t feed your pet with this poison !!!

  • el doctor

    “He has 3 dogs he plays with at home, an acre of land we play on and we go on regular walks.”

    Lucky Bentley!

  • Christy

    I was feeding my dog this at first but his waste smelled awful and had diarrhea and was really picky with eating this but I switched to simply right exceed and his waste is more solid, doesn’t smell as bad and likes the brand…. i’m a bit confused since blue wilderness is rated two stars higher.

  • Pitlove

    Personal choice. He has 3 dogs he plays with at home, an acre of land we play on and we go on regular walks. When we go out its to my work (pet store) or to PetSmart and of course the vet, which he loves. We tried dog parks- first time he got attacked by another dog and second time he picked up fleas while on flea and tick meds. We felt it wasn’t worth it after that.

  • el doctor

    Hi Pitlove

    “but we’re responsible and keep him in our fenced in yard and on a leash if we take him out in public (which isn’t often).”

    May I ask why Bentley is rarely taken out in public?

  • Pitlove

    Bentley is intact, but we’re responsible and keep him in our fenced in yard and on a leash if we take him out in public (which isn’t often). Don’t forget about people like us! No unwanted Bentley puppies here.

  • Crazy4dogs

    It does make it difficult for some breeds. Thanks for taking in all those unwanted dogs! I’ve had many mutts over the years and they are just as wonderful as any purebred! 🙂

  • theBCnut

    You are describing puppy mills, which are by no means most breeders and are not responsible breeders at all.

  • Dori

    Very well said Marie. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Thank you for all you said and all the points you brought up.

  • Dori

    I would suggest that you try a single protein food, perhaps Acana Singles. It’s made by the same company that makes Orijen which is Champion Foods out of Canada. Fabulous company. Yes, the food is a bit expensive but you’ve already been spending money on BB. Since you’ve got a toy breed (I’ve got three toys) the expense is well worth it. Age is not a factor in the gastro issues, diet is. My 16 year old Maltese has no gastro issues whatsoever nor do my two 6 year olds. My one 6 year old did years ago until I eliminated all she was intolerant or sensitive to. If you keep your gut, immune and nutrition healthy you do not automatically get ill just because one becomes a senior. I’m a senior citizen, I have no gastro issues. The reason some seniors do get stomach issues is because they wind up living alone for some reason or other and they no longer cook for one, too much of a bother, their income is not what it once was and they’re living on Social Security which does not stretch enough for decent healthy food and also a bit of laziness is involved in the prep of meals. So much easier to pour some cereal into a bowl than make a healthy breakfast or healthy smoothie. Also, a lot of food goes to waste when cooking or eating for one.

  • InkedMarie

    It is clear that you have no idea what a reputable breeder is. I am sure that puppy millers & backyard breeders breed the same bitch litter after litters but reputable breeders do not.

    I have had all purebreds except for one mutt; they’ve come from one byb (before I knew what they were), shelters, rescues & reputable breeders.

    I sometimes have gotten puppies froim breeders, including last weekend. How does that say anything about my ego? How does that show lack of concern? How about you use your passion for dogs & get people to spay and neuter? That would be a great start. Up here, in NH, we have a constant influx of southern dogs being shipped up here. Me buying from a reputable breeder means I want to spend money on a healthy puppy, from known parents who have had the requisite health testing done.

    I wish dog owners would start being responsible and alter their dogs since I assume they don’t have the ability to contain their dogs (or there wouldn’t be so many dogs coming up here). Close down byb’s and puppy mills, educate puppy buyers & encourage them to go to reputable breeders, not byb’s or puppy mills.

  • Pitlove

    umm.. I don’t breed dogs and I have never studded my male. relax.

  • impeachemall

    If you don’t want to have dogs in shelters because of you, STOP BREEDING THEM!! There are too many dogs in shelters, waiting for someone to take them home and love and care for them!

  • impeachemall

    There’s no shortage of dogs that need loving homes. Buying a pedigree dog from a breeder (most of whom breed bitches after every litter until they die) to satisfy human vanity, reveals a person’s egotism and lack of concern for animals’ wellbeing.

  • impeachemall

    I’ve never been without a dog in my entire 72 years. Only one was a pedigree — a sweet cocker spaniel girl who welcomed and loved the series of mutts that either showed up at my door or were handed over to me by people who “just don’t want them any more”. Every one of the mutts was loving and healthy, and they were healthier and lived longer than pedigree dogs. Humans should quit meddling in dog genetics to satisfy human vanity at the dogs’ expense.

  • impeachemall

    Your dog is 10 years old, Brett — he’s a senior citizen and, like human senior citizens, is subject to digestion problems, so don’t assume they’re the result of his eating Blue Buffalo dog food. My sweet 2-year-old shelter mutt, Buddy, has been thriving on Blue Buffalo since I brought him home about a year-and-a-half ago.

  • LIRight

    🙂

  • Bobby dog

    Yes, the case definitely had some interesting turns, twists, and finger pointing. It was better than a soap opera!

  • trevorsalienarms

    That letter is dated 10/14 and indicates nothing was shipped or sold that was not as advertised. As of May 2015, through the lawsuit discovery process, internal emails have now revealed that in fact products were sold that did not comply with their standards. They messed up, and then lied to consumers by posting that letter.

    “A YEAR TO THE DAY AFTER BEING SUED, BLUE BUFFALO FINALLY ADMITS BY-PRODUCT MEAL IN A “SUBSTANTIAL” AND “MATERIAL” PORTION OF THEIR PET FOOD
    Purina Sued Blue Buffalo for False Advertising; Evidence Developed In the Court Case Forces Blue Buffalo to Admit the Truth
    ST. LOUIS, May 7, 2015”

    Transcripts posted here:

    http://www.petfoodhonesty.com/pressrelease.php

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thank you for your service LIRight! 🙂

  • LIRight

    Right back at you, Bobby dog – take care – I’ve got your 6.

  • Bobby dog

    It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and I do love a good beer. Never been one to turn down a beer. Maybe I’ll look for a beer forum next!

  • LIRight

    Next beer is on me, Bobby! As I stated above…..very classy! Be well, my friend! And thank for the comment on my service…..didn’t get that when I came home. Love you, man!!!!!!!!

  • Bobby dog

    You won’t see me around political blogs, I have too many headaches as it is! I don’t like to see the knives come out or piling on. Thank you for your compliment and thank you for your service to our great country.

  • LIRight

    Bobby…..I often comment on political blogs and what is more typical is the “knives come out” type of comments. You elevated that commentary.

    Nope! I’m not blowing smoke! Good on you, Bobby!

    Hope to see you around – – – no matter your “leanings.”

  • Bobby dog

    😉

  • LIRight

    Excellent comments above and compliments to both commenters; Bobby Dog and Chase Masters for being very classy!!

  • Pitlove

    that’s the opposite of being inbred.

  • el doctor

    Exactly!

  • Pitlove

    😉 😉 😉

    So if a breeder who breeds oh lets say Dogo Argentinos takes her own Dam that she now breeds and buys a Sir from a kennel where the breed orignated in Argentina and breeds them, they are inbred. Lol…

  • el doctor

    Hi Pitlove

    Sorry for the late reply 😉

    You said that I have no way of knowing that all breeders inbreed.

    Inbreeding is how you create a breed and inbreeding is how you maintain a breed, therefore all breeders inbreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    “Inbreeding is the sexual reproduction of offspring from the mating or breeding of individuals or organisms that are closely related genetically.”

    https://www.google.com/search?…
    “in·breed ˈinbrēd/
    breed from closely related people or animals, especially over many generations.”

    http://dictionary.reference.co
    “[in-breed, in-breed]
    verb (used with object), inbred, inbreeding.
    1. to breed (individuals of a closely related group) repeatedly.

  • Bobby dog

    No apologies necessary! These things can slip right by you if you don’t regularly read info on pet food. Sometimes life doesn’t provide enough time to keep up with all the news! 😉

  • Chase Masters

    I stand corrected. My apologies.

  • Chase Masters

    I have a 120lbs German Shepherd that I adopted at 4 years old, 2 years ago. He is very picky both in taste and stomach sensitivity. He was raised on a very strict raw chicken regime since puppyhood.

    I have used this site to research premium dry alternatives that I would slowly transition him to. I like to research and enjoy finding a great nutritional choice that fits in my budget. I prefer to not try the mass advertised brands like Blue Buffalo. So over time I tried: Taste of the Wild, Merrick Classic, Wellness Core, Dr. Tim’s, Precise Naturals, Honest Kitchen dehydrated, and Whole Earth Farms. He didn’t “like” any of these. He didn’t hate them but he ate to avoid being hungry. Never with any enthusiasm.

    So I decided to give a Blue Buffalo product a first try: Wilderness, chicken large breed. I am shocked. He devours this food! He empties the bowl as soon as I pour it in. I never expected this. He loves it! Hallelujah!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi Brett,

    I do think your question got kind of sidetracked by a lot of comments. You might want to try a different company if you don’t feel comfortable with BB and you are having some issues. I wouldn’t switch to a senior formula. It’s mostly a marketing ploy and they often lower the protein in these formulas. Older dogs actually need more high quality protein. I disagree not to give canned or fresh food unless Bill means just long enough to see if a formula is working. In that case, he’s correct. Which formula were you feeding? Did you rotate between protein sources or foods? If he’s been on the same food for several years, you will need to do a very slow transition to the new food. Are you familiar with transitioning food?

  • Brett Shane

    What? I got my dog from a good breeder,but she could just lie. I was told he had a mom and dad on site not related(now I’m thinking what if they were). The breeder had 2 puppies a female she kept (for breeding) and a male which I bought. He’s 10 years old and I don’t know where the time went. Hebis the most amazing little guy and just love him to pieces. When he passes I KNOW I will be for ever screwed up.

  • Brett Shane

    Thank you so much. I just want him to eat something that isn’t going to hurt him. I never thought it was the food that was making him sick. I thought he ate something outside or just getting older. When I saw the site about blue buffalo their were so many complaints about gas,bowel movements and just unwell animals. You just wanna give them the best that is out their.

  • Brett Shane

    He hasn’t been sick for years and doesn’t have fleas. The vet and I think it’s allergies.

  • Nikki
  • Bobby dog
  • Chase Masters

    Where’s your evidence of this? Otherwise stop spreading FUD.

  • Pitlove

    “All breeders inbreed.”- you have no way of knowing that.

  • el doctor

    “and this ridiculous notion that purebred dogs are far more unhealthy, is based on nothing”

    According to the study that you linked to;

    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10613

    “The researchers evaluated records for more than 90,000 purebred and mixed-breed dogs between 1995 and 2010” and from that group identified 27,254 dogs as “having one or more (of) 24 genetic disorders”

    The researchers found that “The incidence of 10 genetic disorders out of 24 (42%), was significantly greater in purebred dogs.

    While the study you linked to may not have shown that “purebred dogs are far more unhealthy” than mixed breed dogs, it did show that purebred dogs had a significantly greater incidence (42%) of 10 of the 24 genetic disorders they studied, and that there is a clear basis for saying that purebred dogs suffer from a greater incidence of genetic disorders than mixed breed dogs.

  • el doctor

    All breeders inbreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
    “Inbreeding is the sexual reproduction of offspring from the mating or breeding of individuals or organisms that are closely related genetically.”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=inbreed&oq=inbreed&aqs=chrome..69i57.4487j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
    “in·breed ˈinbrēd/
    breed from closely related people or animals, especially over many generations.”

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inbreed
    “[in-breed, in-breed]
    verb (used with object), inbred, inbreeding.
    1. to breed (individuals of a closely related group) repeatedly.

  • theBCnut

    I wouldn’t consider that to be reputable either. For me, reputable is breeding to improve the breed. That must include health, but the number one thing is using only dogs that are superior at whatever task the breed was developed for. No dog with health issues should be superior at such tasks, so good health should be automatic.

  • theBCnut

    Sometimes, you can get a really nice dog that way because the breeder wants to keep the ability to use the dog without having to keep multiple males in the house.

  • theBCnut

    Not at all.

  • theBCnut

    You are so right! It was the first post to bring up inbreeding, which is NOT at all what the OP was talking about.

  • Dori

    Actually ParmalatHarlot you are describing my mixed dog. My purebred dog is the healthiest of the lot and she just turned 16 years old. As aquariangt said, I believe you have been misinformed or are running with terribly outdated myths.

  • Dori

    BC I think you may have been referring here to Parmalotharlot and not the OP. The OP was Brett Shane asking advice about dog food and we got side tracked with Parmalotharlot’s original rely to the OP. I think anyway. I think we all lost sight of the original poster and the plea for help.

  • aquariangt

    They look like a different breed, that’s for sure. And they absolutely don’t have the same drive/trainability that you get out of a working or performance line. Not to say none of them are balanced, but it’s not too common

  • Crazy4dogs

    That’s funny! I can see why you’d call them that when you see how much time is spent primping the dog’s before they enter the show ring! 😉

  • theBCnut

    Basically, if the stud book was closed before the breed was brought over to the US, barring mutations, then breeding to an import is still breeding within the same gene pool. Yes, over time, the two different populations were selecting for different things, so some genes were eliminated, but they both started with the same set of genes, so by remixing the lines, you are only restoring the possible genes that were bred out of one line or another. The only breed I know of, probably not the only one, just the only one I know of, that can continually have fresh genes come into it, is the working Border Collie. Since they are bred for the work they do, not looks, any dog of any parentage that works the right way and to the right level, can be added to the breeding lines. This is an open stud book. As soon as a breed’s stud book is closed, no new genes are being added to that breed, and the genetics start getting tighter and tighter within that breed.

  • theBCnut

    Definitely!!

  • theBCnut

    We call AKC Border Collies Barbie Collies, and we do consider them to be a different breed.

  • Pitlove

    Ya that has also been in every single contract I’ve found (the last part you mentioned). I wouldn’t mine studding him as long as the pups would be sold by the breeder and with the same thought and consideration for the breed and the pups themselves etc. I don’t want to have dogs in shelters because of me.

  • Shawna

    No, I think we are on the same page. Think being the operative word. 🙂
    Grandpa / grand daughter, 2nd cousins – animals from the same line.

  • Susan

    Hi Brett, my boy has food sensitivities & skin problems… I’ve been feeding him “Earthborn Holistic” Ocean Fusion, I started with the Ocean Fusion cause it has the least ingredients & the fat is 12%min, he has stopped scratching, no bowel rumbling from gas & his poos are beautiful & firm, the Earthborn Holistic has their Coastal Catch that has only 29% carbohydrates or their Primitive Natural that has only 17% carbs but its a bit tooo rich for my boy, here’s their site to have a look but start with the Ocean Fusion & see how ur dogs does then if you want a higher protein & higher fat kibble try the Coastal Catch & go from there http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/dog_formulas/

  • Crazy4dogs

    Wow! Thanks Shawna! I’ll finish watching later. I only saw the brief you tube clip on the GSD dog that won even though it couldn’t walk.

  • Shawna

    Here’s the Pedigree Dogs Exposed video. I watched it several years ago and many times had to stop the video playback because I was bawling too much. Heart wrenching

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqtgIVOJOGc

  • Crazy4dogs

    It’s a complicated thing. Breeders are selling the dogs that will not likely be show quality. They want the dogs neutered to prevent backyard breeders and/or to prevent their “line” from being sold by others, inferior or not. If you want an intact dog/bitch you will have to pay for one with breeding rights, whether you choose to do so or not. You may even have to breed it. It depends on the breeder and what they want in their contact.

  • Crazy4dogs

    So true! So many breeds have been separated between field and conformation that they almost have become 2 different breeds. The Golden & Labrador Retrievers are good examples.
    Most people don’t realize these were active hunting dogs. Everyone wants one. The field style often end up in kill shelters where people decide they like the idea of the dog more than the actual responsibility of an active dog. :'(
    I own 2 of those kill shelter dogs.

  • Pitlove

    Thats very sad. I really never thought that a dog that was essentially disabled would even qualify as a show dog.

    I’m a little ways away from getting my Cane Corso, but I’ve been looking at breeders. I’d be fine with a companion Corso as long as they were still breeding for health and temperment and the hips etc. My problem is that they seem to all have it in their contract that companions have to be spayed/neutered. I’m against it and don’t want to be forced to doing so. But things like this make me worry about getting a show quality one.

  • theBCnut

    Oh, and for those who don’t know, the current Irish Wolfhound was created to look like the ancient extinct breed, but NEVER hunted. It was created for nothing but looks, costs thousands of dollars, and has a life expectancy of less than 6 years.

  • theBCnut

    I agree that it isn’t a reason to stop breeding, but I do feel it’s a reason to breed for more than just looks. The “sport” of purebred dogs is in trouble, health wise, because it has put uniformity of appearance above every other consideration. If responsible breeders went back to breeding for the characteristics that founded the breeds, they would have dogs that didn’t have so many issues. If responsible breeders refused to breed to the current extremes, we wouldn’t have so many health issues. There have been many instances where a dog with know problems was bred because of how it looked, instead of how it performed. That’s no longer even a slippery slope, we are well down the side of that mountain.

  • Pitlove

    true that!

  • Shawna

    I LOVE this meme. LOL

  • theBCnut

    Who knows what kind of crazy the OP was thinking!

  • Crazy4dogs
  • LabsRawesome

    Haha

  • LabsRawesome

    Shawna

  • Pitlove

    I wasn’t really thinking about the show ring when I wrote that post, but you bring up good points.

  • Dori

    In my estimation any breeder that is breeding to conform to standards that are imposed so that their dogs can win awards is a disreputable breeder. Though they are not back yard breeders, though some may be, they are not reputable breeders. Certainly not any that I would get a dog from.

    The definition of a reputable breeder in my mind is, and always has been, a breeder that breeds for health and only for health and nothing else.

  • Nikki Cinnamon

    BAN BLUE BUFFALO! they lied and have been putting animal by-products in their food. The owner should be ashamed, super evil and greedy!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thanks! Unfortunately, it’s now the norm in my area. We have too much personal experience with our own rescue dogs. 🙁

  • aquariangt

    Yes. This. The show ring, while there is a lot of responsible breeding happening, has some serious faults. The majority of the issues fall within breeds that have a strong history of working line, but it happens with others like the bulldog too. Even though I have dogs from show lines, it’s just not a world i’m interested in for that exact reason. The GSD is the best example of this, though you see it pretty heavily in labs, and even BCs as well. I wish so badly that the breed standards would shift back to original purpose, and we can see some of these lines become prevalent again. They aren’t extinct, because working and performance dogs still have a demand, so they could easily return to the forefront of what they should look like.

  • aquariangt

    I can’t even upvote you enough on how much I dislike pediatric altering

  • Crazy4dogs

    Yes and No. The current German Shepherd, as an example, is incapable of doing the task it was originally bred to do. Due to popularity in “angulation” in the show ring, many of the dogs have severe issues. These are not backyard breeders or disreputable breeders. They are breeding to win in the show ring, because that’s what the judges are picking. Other examples of this type of breeding are the English Bulldog, who can’t even reproduce with out artifical insemination and C-section delivery. The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, was bred from such a small gene pool that it has serious mitral valve heart issues and has a very short life span.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/although-purebred-dogs-can-be-best-in-show-are-they-worst-in-health/

    http://leerburg.com/gsd-gate.htm

    http://www.cgejournal.org/content/2/1/3

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/08/05/ukc-shows.aspx

  • aquariangt

    It is a much tighter gene pool, and I agree that there is a lot more to a similar gene profile than just father/daughter etc… which is part of the reason to keep the lines diversified. Even with an imported animal like Shawna says below, there will be some link, albeit with responsible breeding that is far back (one hopes). There is also more to it if you look at an individual breed (the example I read about being the wolfhound) with so few of them in existence, the chance of cross genes are much greater than say, a mini poodle. Is this reason enough to halt all breeding? In my opinion, no. Gene diversity is something that just should be pushed forward in more breeders minds.

  • aquariangt

    I do agree. It’s like when you do prelim tests for disease on your young dog, it shows gene susceptibility to develop, but there is no guarantee there. Part of the reason responsible breeders don’t breed until later in life when they have been able to identify any possible problems, as opposed to the moment the dog hits sexual maturity

  • Crazy4dogs

    I think the reason ccl tears are more common in mixed breeds may actually be due to the fact that so many mixed breeds are desexed very early in life. Almost every rescue won’t release a dog for adoption without spay/neuter regardless of age, including pediatric neutering.
    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498

    http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/studies-call-neutering-pets-question

  • Pitlove

    I can agree with that though I believe the OP is thinking about inbreeding in the traditional sense

  • theBCnut

    No more than breeding any mutt to any other mutt. Dogs within a breed are a lot more closely related than all of humanity, just because in dog breeds, we have completely eliminated some genes. No matter how many needs you breed, you will never get one that’s the size of a Chihuahua, as an example of what’s been eliminate.

  • Shawna

    Let me see if I understand you — Dr Bergin’s Newfie bred with a Newf from Germany that have a family history, be it 100s of years ago, are still inbred. Wouldn’t humans, and every other species, all be inbred as well then?

  • theBCnut

    Any member of a breed is of the same gene pool.

    If you are creating a breed, you might start with 3 of one breed and three of another and start crossing them until you get what you want and getting rid of all the ones that aren’t what you want, but genetically speaking, no matter how many pups you end up with, no matter how many generations, they all come from 6 dogs and the three from the first breed are all that closely related and the three from the second breed are all that closely related.

    If you start with purebred dogs, you start with a very limited, very inbred gene pool, no matter how many generations you have.

  • Shawna

    LOL, fight with a bush and lost. That’s gotta suck!! Hee hee

    Something you said struck a cord with me — “genetic disorders”. Genetic disorders are a part of being alive. Inbreeding in people is illegal yet our genes play a huge role in disease expression.

    The other thing that struck me, I believe you would agree, simply having the genetic susceptibility, for most diseases, is not enough to express said disease. There are outside influences, such as diet, that are involved in disease expression. Where disease is expressed, however, is determined by the genes.

  • el doctor

    “Thanks for showing up El Doctor”

    You’re welcome!

  • Pitlove

    Reputable breeders do not inbreed and do not breed genetic disorders, skin disorders, poor temperment etc into litters. They spay/neuter their male or bitch that is not fit for reproduction and often sell those dogs to good homes or keep them.

  • aquariangt

    Yup. The thing about the internet and technology-you can actually view most pedigrees and get a % level of mixed gene pools via the current resources available for people looking for a puppy. And the amount of tests available to check for genetic disorders? Awesome. My crew rarely needs medical attention, wellness checks, and freak things (Dani had a fight with a bush once that caused a slight eye laceration) no diseases, and “whoa” they’re all purebred

  • aquariangt

    exactly. it’s bothersome to me (as you know of course) when people lump the two together. You really can’t generalize the two together because they are so vastly different

  • Shawna

    Oh my gawd, I just read that petMD article. “The main problem with purebreds stems from the simple fact that to create a purebred puppy you need two dogs from the exact same gene pool.” I have never once heard of that (same gene pool) being the definition of purebred — same breed yes, not same gene pool. I googled it to confirm. Am I wrong here or was the author of that article in NO position to be writing an article when he/she clearly doesn’t understand the subject matter?

  • Shawna

    I would agree that generations of inbreeding causes issues. How could it not? That said, you statement is way too generalized to ever be true as not all breeders inbreed.

    A wonderful example of an excellent breeder, showcased by Dr. Karen Becker, is chiropractor Dr Jeff Bergin. Dr. Bergin breeds Newfoundlands. One of his females lived to 17 years of age. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/04/05/how-a-newfoundland-pet-dog-reached-17-years.aspx

    I think it’s pretty naive to think that puppy mill bred dogs, be it mixed or purebred, are healthier than dogs raised by breeders who breed for health as one of their primary considerations. Unfortunately it seems that not all are so worried about health of their line, but then puppy mill breeders don’t seem to be at all concerned about health.

  • aquariangt

    http://animalbiology.ucdavis.edu/Accomplishments/PDF/Inherited%20disorders%20with%20dogs.pdf
    Thanks for showing up El Doctor. The point however is that MORE disorders are the same than just purebred dogs, and this ridiculous notion that purebred dogs are far more unhealthy, is based on nothing

  • el doctor

    Hi ParmalatHarlot

    I don’t know if you read the link that aquariangt provided yet, but it showed that;

    1) The incidence of 10 genetic disorders (42%) was significantly greater in purebred dogs.

    2) The incidence of 1 disorder (ruptured cranial cruciate ligament; 4%) was greater in mixed breed dogs.

    3) For the rest of the disorders examined, they found no difference in incidence between mixed and purebred dogs.’

    So, according to the study that aquariangt linked to, purebred dogs do have a higher rate of genetic disorders than mixed breed dogs.

    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10613

  • InkedMarie

    excellent post.

  • aquariangt

    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10613
    Sorry, but I wouldn’t necessarily consider a generic petmd article without any links to be a source

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