Dog Food Advisor
Dog Food Reviews and Ratings
To see Part 2, please click Dr. Karen Becker Shows How to Choose a Good Dog Food.
For more help, watch Dr. Becker’s video to discover The Best and Worst Types of Food to Feed Your Dog.
I would try zymox first.
Debbie I also used zymox – can find it on Ebay and several pet stores in my area sell it. It works wonders. As for food what can you afford? NV has limited ingredient foods, I have used Natures Logic with great success in the past. I am willing to donate something to help you buy a food that works and is in your budget if you can stay on it. You will also need to give it time. I add yogurt and pumpkin as well.
ps sorry to bother you again Shawna, for how long do i keep adding the pumpkin?
im depressed beyond depressed:( i guess she needs the ear surgery no matter what, and you have no idea how bad i feel that i cant afford it, my daughter says she will help w/ it, but thats not gonna happen.. i dont even hear from her.. so its all on me , and i just dont have it:( so even w/ the brothers food she will still need digestive enzymes and probiotics??? so is the high protein thats making her sick? and why such bad gas passing?? i need a mask, serious… i hurt for her..
yes, ur right, odd as she said i watch to much tv?? as this would be on tv??, and I dont, i dont have cable, or a antena, or a converter box, I get none, 0 channels, i watch my same old dvds and old vhs tapes over n over…
im thinking maybe soon audrey is better off getting put to sleep, i swear i thought i would never ever say that, i cry as i type here:(, i cant cope anymore.. my personal issues are so bad that I feel like Im doing audrey no justice, half of my $$ each mo goes on vets…. and now brothers food has her sick, well you know what i mean.. detox, whatever… this is all to much for me being alone:( i keep trying for her, but i feel im not helping her….
That’s too bad! If all vets knew about this stuff can you imagine the healing potential.. The “master antioxidant” of the body is pretty important!!
Personally, I wouldn’t try to switch her to a new food again for at least 8 weeks. Debbie, you’ve invested in Brothers, and for good reason – give it time to do its thing!! Remember, YOU are the one who is changing HER foods for HER ..she isn’t the one doing that. She’s eating, she’s drinking. Dogs have a funny way of doing things that are good for them, and not doing things that are bad for them.. they *know* these things.. I’m pretty sure she knows this food is good stuff for her. As I said before, her system is actually responding to the food EXACTLY the way that it should..it is YOU that is freaking out at what’s going on, not her. Remember that. Let Audrey be your guide.
I don’t recall how often you feed her, but maybe try feeding her once a day for a while until her system starts to adjust? That would be the only “change” I would suggest making (other than trying different amounts of pumpkin, as you may be feeding her too much – I don’t recall her size, but a teaspoon worked for my 26lb guy).
she just returned my call, she said she has no idea what im talking about, that im watching to much tv, and looking online for stuff, she said she never heard of it, LOLLLLL
You won’t find any foods (that I am aware of****) that are higher in protein, have digestive enzymes, have multiple strains of probiotics and have lower glycemic carbs like tapioca. Brothers also uses (based on info from Richard) that are not foods for yeast unlike other prebiotics in other foods. If you don’t want to feed Brothers though, then switch to something else. ****If there are foods that meet these criteria, hopefully Sandy, Hound Dog Mom or some of the others, more knowledgable in the different foods, will post…
maybe she feels the detox will take away the meds? lol, and I called and left a message, asking her if she knew what that was.. what you posted, this will be nice to hear her answer….
And there is no reason not to start detoxing before the meds have been cleared out of her system. If you wait then there is just that many more toxins that need cleared out. And, if you are using food — there is no counter indication between drugs/supplements. “Let food be thy medicine”
Ask your vet about glutathione and let me know what her response is….. If she feels that protein isn’t linked to detoxing then she doesn’t know about glutathione.
The below is quoted from the website “The detox specialist” and the title of the article is called “Glutathione: The Miracle Detox Nutrient”
“Glutathione (pronounced gloota-thigh-own) is a powerful antioxidant and a key nutrient for the detox process….
Supplements containing N-acetyl-cycsteine (NAC) , glycine and methionine have been more effective in increasing glutathione levels in the blood than glutathione itself….
Whey protein is easily absorbed and is well known for increasing glutathione levels but it must be unpasteurized or low heat pasteurized or it will not be effective.” http://thedetoxspecialist.com/blog/detox/glutathione-the-miracle-detox-nutrient
Glycine and methionine are amino acids in protein. From memory glutamine (another amino acid) is important too. “Whey protien” is another source of the nutrients that make glutathione. So again, I ask if your vet knows about glutathione?? You most certainly CAN use food to detox.
o my..:(, and the carbs look high on brothers….
No, the diarrhea definitley should not last 6 months non-stop. But Audry could have off and on diarrhea for a long time and she could detox (in other ways even) for that whole time..
Dehydration is definitely a concern. If she continues you may have to stop the Brothers (even if the food actually is helping her) cause you won’t be able to afford supportive care for the dehydration. If that is the case then you need to stop the Brothers and start a food with the highest protein she can tolerate. Keeping in mind that you can add a tablespoon(ish) of pumpkin to help firm up the stool during this time (on whichever food). Also will want to add digestive enzymes and probiotics. You can start with a small amount and work up to a normal dose of the probiotics. Eventually (if there is a systemic yeast infection) you will have to get the carbs down and protein up to clear out the yeast. Otherwise you will be back at square one once you stop giving probiotics (high quality ones are a bit pricey).
so then it is the higher protein that is kinda also giving her the runs? the vet said the bro food is acting like a detox, but she said in reality, it is not, it is giving her allergy issues:( she said if i wanted to detox audrey, i needed to wait till all the meds were ended, and use a real detox progrmam.. not a change of food… i tell u i hear 10 different stories from 10 different people, lol and even when I start researching, there are many conflicts:(
The duck food only has 22.5% protein and some of that is from garbonzo beans and is not as utilizable by the body.
Brothers allergy formula has 36% protein with only a small amount coming from non meat sources. With the added enzymes, more of that 36% protein in Brothers is being digested and used by the body then the 22.5% in the duck..
I kinda stopped giving the kefir cause either you, or betsy, maybe her? im lost i swear, lol said they did not think the runs were coming from the brothers, so I started thinking maybe it was coming from the kefir, so I stopped it, but the runs continued, and when i stopped the bro, i started to re add the kefir in her pumpkin n coconut, no runs… this is a real mess… ear is worse then ever now
The duck food didn’t have probiotics in it.. Probiotics are used to treat diarrhea but they are also a cause of diarrhea when there is a large imbalance of bad bacteria (or in this case – yeast). This gets better as the good over takes the bad.
The duck didn’t have added enzymes either. Enzymes will make more of the food (nutrients) available for use by the body.
Brother’s has significantly more animal protein then the duck too..
All of these are reasons you would see increased diarrhea on the Brothers food.
Are you still giving the kefir?
I only just re started the pumpkin, as she had the runs so bad from the brothers.. I was giving, what I used to in her homemade vegan diet, approx 1 tablespoon, but then when the runs got worse, I had to stop all the brothers, and straight pumpkin about 1/4 cup to half cup, but she only ate a little at a time…
Hi Debbie, How much pumpkin are you giving her? Pumpkin is great, I use it all the time… in moderation. Pumpkin in larger concentrations can help with constipation. If you’re giving her too much pumpkin, it’s sort of the equivalent of a laxative.
NICE reply Storm’s Mom!!!
Detoxing is tricky and can be scary but the body has to do it in order for healing to happen…
I can’t remember the site now but there is one where a nutritionist put a dog with severe ear, coat, itching etc issues on a raw diet and then photographed the detox.. The dog looked WAY worse before getting MUCH better — horrible eye drainage and matting, lost most its fur etc.. I’m detoxing from dairy right now and its not pretty… ;( My detox sympotms are often worse (more intense) then the symptoms from the dairy allergy itself!!!
ps, so really what your saying here, is it is a good thing??? but why when i put her on the duck it did not happen, no runs, just a ton of huge bowel movements…
omg that long?? are you actually serious?:(, by then she will be dehydrated and in hospital, no? I mean she was drinking a ton water, yet still had the runs and i mean bad i was taking her out every 10-20 min all day n night, it stopped a bit now as when i stopped the brothers, i just added a 1/4 cup of brothers allergy food to her approx half cup of pumpkin w/ coconut flakes, the pumpkin sat n she was not eating it, when i now added bro she hate all… but i hope the runs dont start..
I enjoyed it too A detox can take MONTHS — 6 to 12 months even. Depends on how toxic the pup (or peson) was to begin with. You have all the drugs she’s on, the smoke from the adjoining apartment, the vaccinations, the bug spray, the stress of the move and missing your daughter, the yeast etc etc etc… The only quick fix is to keep her drugged and go through with the surgery (which you may end up having to do anyway)…
ys, of course I recall our conversation:), why would I not? I enjoyed, totally our talking.. how long should this last for? im scared.. this never happened before… and her ear is getting worse, more closed up:(, n still on all meds except for one..
Do you remember what we talked about on the phone —- detoxing? Do you remember I said it was VERY likely that diarrhea would happen and that almost every single foster dog I have had (over 30) has had diarrhea when I put them on a better quality, higher protein dog food? It is part of the healing process.
What on earth was that vet thinking?? A dog will not be allergic to something it was not exposed to in the past.
Do you also remember me stating that as the yeast die off (if it is a systemic yeast infection) that you will see more symptoms (from the toxins the yeast give off as they die)?
From Veterinary Naturopaths Dr. Jeannie Thomason & Dr. Kim Bloomer
“Detoxify means to rid of poisons or the effects of poison. Poison is defined as any substance that has an inherent tendency to destroy life or impair health. Pesticides, chemicals, devitalized food and vaccinations all set up toxic situations in the system. The body must rid itself of these poisons. We see symptoms of detoxification with vomiting, diarrhea, bad breath, itchy skin, draining eyes and ears, and cysts and tumors, to name a few.
Since you have now begun to feed a more natural diet (especially raw), the body is now, finally, able to assimilate nutrients it can use and desperately needs. Once the immune system can finally utilize all those valuable, necessary, essential nutrients, the body then takes action to get the junk or toxins out.” http://www.thewholedog.org/artHealingCrisis.html
Adding higher quality proteins (LIKE EGGS) helps the detoxification process along. There, of course, could be an ingredient in Brothers that is causing symptoms BUT I FULLY anticipate that you will see symptoms on any high quality meat based food you feed.
ok, today i have in her bowl a half cup of nat organic pumpkin with a few flakes of cocconut, organic to, how much brothers should i put in there?
You are looking at the diarrhea and saying “it’s not agreeing with her” and I am looking at the diarrhea and saying “it’s doing exactly what it’s supposed to be doing”. Your looking at it as a bad reaction, I’m seeing it as a good reaction. If she’s drinking and eating the kibble (sounds like she is!), keep on it!! Why am I saying this? Debbie, have you ever had cleansing tea? If not, basically what happens when you drink it, especially the first time, is you get really horrible runs and/or really large stools ..this is your body CLEANSING itself of all the bad stuff that’s in your system. You feel a ton better afterwards. And, yes, as soon as you stop it, things get back to normal pretty quickly. Brothers is, essentially, a cleansing tea for Audrey. She likely has a ton of bad stuff built up in her system, so you’re likely to see her system “react” for a while. It’ll probably get worse before it gets better. That’s NORMAL. Like I said, since she is drinking and actually eating the kibble, this is a very good sign… just let the kibble do its job for a while! If she stops eating it or stops drinking, then I’d get concerned.. but, especially if she’s eating it, she likely knows good stuff is happening to her
ohh, I am (re. the water), she never even gets tap water, never really has, either purified, if I dont have a clean filter, but normally I try to get a new one every 2 mo, its just a brita deal.. but better then tap water, she has been drinking a ton, as how I dont get how she got so dehydrated, well I guess it did not matter, as it was coming right out of her:(, ohh, ok, so you dont feel its anything in the brothers? ( and please, understand I am not putting down the food, I am asking in re. to anything in that she is having a reaction to), the vet said to stop the food, if not she would have to go in to vet hospital to be put on iv, etc.. I cant let that happen, she said to stop it n see if the runs stopped, and they did:(, so does not not sound then like something in the food is totally not agreeing with her?
She’s liking not having a reaction to anything in the Brothers..she’s likely having a reaction to a new, improved food that is cleansing/detoxing her system. This is normal, and would likely happen with ANY food you put her on at this point, so stick with the Brothers. As others have mentioned, it takes 6-8 weeks for things to get better, and they will likely get worse before they get better. Again, this is normal. Expect it, be ready (make sure she’s drinking enough water), but don’t stop and change up her food again.
well, im thinking , maybe I will just now add like a teaspoon or a tablespoon of the brothers to her pumpkin this am? I mean if she is having a reaction to something(s) in the brothers, would giving her that small of a amount still trigger it?
ahh, I see.. yes Im waiting to see what kind my web man is gonna put on my new site…, all posts there I have to let in or deny though, plus have moderators…
good am patty, I was doing exactly that, lol pumpkin, and a homemade probiotic, and now have some plain un sweetened, organic yogurt, I was giving tiny bits of brothers, to the pumpkin and probiotics, she get getting sick, and then dehydrated… is now drinking water, w/ pedilite in it:( the minute I start any amount of the brothers, she gets sick again… very sad:(
the duck and potatoe ran out, I was giving her a homemade diet, no meats, just vegan.. I did however make the trasistion slow… and finally stopped adding all the reg food and straight brothers, but even when I first started the brothers, and was adding just a tiny bit to her food, she started getting sick.
You should get a can of plain pumpkin and a thing of plain yogart and give her a spoonful of each with her meals. The diarrhea is probably because her system needs a little extra help for a while until she gets used to the new food. Some dogs can’t handle having their food switched up like that. A good probiotic is better than yogart, if you have one.
I don’t think Audry was on a regular food to have a slow transition from.
yea, as soon as I stopped the brothers, her bowel movements were fine.. I am NOT putting the food down at all, but vet was shocked for a allergy formula that it had so much in it, eggs, etc… so guess something(s) in it, made audrey worse.. I kept on with it, thinking it would stop once she got used to it, and got worse, so now im back to the drawing board:(
Yeah, we have a new Disqus format and we’re all having to adjust to it. Sometimes its not pretty.
thanks:), well maybe there was a glitch here then, as see I tryed to post here last week, and it said no such user, then it asked for my e mail addy, and I gave it and it then popped up saying no such user with that e mail address.. so by last night, I decided just to come on as new person, lol and it let me very strange….my old site used to do that all the time to people, web man changed to something new, and then all was good, now getting a whole new site:)
thank you, will check it out, I do from so many cocker people hear about blue power, but that had 1 or 2 ingredients in it that I was told were not good.. forum? this is a forum we are all posting on… thats what I meant.. again, thanks for the link..
you weren’t kicked out, I had to sign back in this morning. I get my Zymox from http://www.KVVet.com but you can google and see who else sells it
for the first day or so no, I really was not able to, I mean a little, and gave only a tiny bit of brothers, but this is going on now for what, 2 weeks?And the diherra got so bad, I had to get her to vet, was billed, which was a shocker.. but she said audrey was getting dehydrated:(she said to stop the food, I did not, well 2 days ago I guess I did, and by that day, she was better…I dont get it…
Debbie, it can take up to 6 weeks to know if a dog food will work for a certain dog. Did you do a change over to the Brothers over a 5-7 day period?
Zymox Otic without hydrocortizone (green bottle).
There is not a forum here yet.
where do u get the zymox?? and how much is it? is it a cream or a liquid? also, odd, I was not allowed in forum here, had to go in and re do.. was I kicked out? why?:(
hi, I just re read this older one it was in my email… maybe this is why she is sick?? having bad diherrea, have had her on brothers allergy for quite a few days now, and still sick, and Im pretty sure it has chicken in it..:(
Betsy, made kefir, and audrey simply loves it!!!:)
A vid. I have watched before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZX8WB7A5uE
ps.. what I forgot to say was, in re. to the link you gave me.. I just read it, and I have researched it for so long, its coming out of my ears, you find a ton saying a dog cant thrive w/out meat, and you find a ton saying it can, just like when you look up for a person being being, or for that matter anything else in life it seems like you know? I was looking up raw diets yesterday, for audrey.. not me , as I at times will go on a fast, or a raw vegan diet for a few days, but I was looking up raw meat diets, I found so many places that said it was great, the best, and then places where it said not to give a dog raw meat, loll its unreal.. how so much will differ, you know?my daughter in law went vegan , then got pregnant, her dr said it was fine, she had a great healthy baby girl, who is now vegan, and her dr is amazed… I think in life, some things can be bad for some, with people, and our companions:)
thanks for asking how we are:), hope you are good, I did e mail you and never heard back.. im sure you are very.. just not much more for me to really say here I guess.. e mail me if you like, and I hope you are doing good:)
I haven’t seen you post in a couple of days and I just read this article on the doctor’s website that I’m scheduling Sam to see for a chiropractic evaluation.
I thought you might find it interesting. http://evetclinic.com/carnivores-are-not-vegans
Hope all is well with you and Audrey!
I dont have that issue;(, but that is so cool:)…
Debbie, if you can find the November issue of Dog Fancy (has the Bloodhound on the front), look through it, til you get to the Look Alike Contest: we won!
I really hope Debbie can try the Brothers.
Not all fish have mercury.. The ones to watch are the big fish further up the food chain — like tuna and king mackeral.
On the flip side —- grains have antinutrients called phytates. Phytates bind with minerals and prevent their absorption. So a person or an animal eating lots of grains can end up being calcium deficient, zinc deficient, magnesium deficient etc.. This is not without consequences — magnesium deficiency can lead to seizures. Calcium is required for a healthy immune system etc etc…
This information is inaccurate.. ALL foods have protein in them —– ALL of them (“foods” being the operative word).. Ever heard of a “peanut allergy”. Peanuts can be deadly to people who are allergic to them.. The protein in kidney beans can actually kill a person if eaten unprocessed. Many foods use soy protein or potato protein or pea protein.. These are all still proteins. If they get through the gut wall and into the blood stream undigested they can cause a reaction just like any meat protein can.
Allergies (an IgE reaction by the body) are really not very common. However intolerances (an IgA reaction by the body) are much more prevalent.
When an undigested protein gets into the blood stream and the immune system is over reacting then an allergy forms. This reaction can happen to ANY protein that is not digested — be it corn or beef. In order for an allergy to happen the dog HAD to have been exposed to the allergen before the reaction — long term usually.
An intolerance is most likely going to happen due to grains, legumes, dairy, potatoes, chicken and eggs. Intolerances can happen with only one exposure. Intolerances are also caused by proteins — proteins called glycoproteins..
If Audrey has an intolerance (which is more likely then an allergy) ANY food from oats to barley to garbonzo beans to green beans, and more, can be causing the issues you are seeing.
yes:(. I did e mail him, and his brother, no reply yet….im out of it re all this.. i just dont get it, i mean i do, but… i dont know:( i also feel so, cant put it into words my daughter begged me to buy her this dog, I did, then she takes off, i dont mind being left w/ the responsibilty, as audrey has basically been mine for 6 yrs, and I love her, I just wish my daughter would really put audrey first here and start to help me a bit, its hard on me.. money wise and other ways I feel I am not doing right by her:(like why is she still at 6 yrs old having this? I have done all I have been told to:(
Several of us have been thinking this all along Debbie.. The recommendations we are giving you will help with allergies as well as systemic candida infections..
Remember me saying that as the yeast (aka candida) die off they release toxins which will increase the symptoms seen at first?
I also suggested that you talk with Richard (no matter what food you decide to use) because he himself has had and fought off a systemic candida yeast infection..
ACV was listed as a preventative on the link I included… NICE
***I am only putting some things here that I have been reading, ok? these are not coming from my mouth:), I just always look online to see what others are doing re. their dogs food, allergies etc., so dont think I am saying all of this, or even agreeing w/ it****** something else I found re fish, scary, but I am sure can be true: Lots of people think they are thriving eating fish instead of other meats but end up with mercury poisoning. NOW. Science & Health. Mercury in Fish | PBS
If its this way with people why would it be any different with dogs.
The FDA says 2 meals per week is safe.
My dog is intolerant of chicken and has gastric up set with the smallest bit but can eat turkey with no problems
So yes, odds are it’s a food allergy.
What foods has he been on since you got him?
im just posting things I have read re allergies in dogs.., Debbie****
I would not run out and get the grain-free food yet. First you need to analyze what foods he’s been on and pick a different PROTEIN source since the protein source, NOT the grains, are the more typical allergens.
Good ones to try may be Venison, Salmon, Bison because typical foods do not usually contain these. A vegetarian diet may also work (avoiding all meat-based proteins). Yes, a vegetarian diet is FINE for your dog, especially when allergies are involved.
You’d then need put your pup on this diet and ONLY this diet (no treats, no table scraps– nothing) for 6-8 weeks to see if there is an effect. If you’re not strict about it, it may not work.
As for Durlactin, I’ve never heard of it. I’d continue to clean the ears ever few days. Did the vet give you any meds to put in it? If so, what?
Marie, I am confused, as being new here, your dog made front cover?? ohh cool!!!!
found this to, this was a good part of why I have given her a veg/vegan diet, as due to allergies I have even had plenty of vets tell me with a dog like her to stay away from most meats: That may be the problem. chicken and lamb are the most common to cause allergies because they are the most frequently used in dog food. You also have to be careful because a lot of foods use chicken fat. My dog can not eat chicken. It was very hard to find a food that did not have some chicken or chicken fat in it. You could try the blue basic formulas, I use the blue buffalo basic turkey and it works well for my dog. I also found something that works for ears. It is called pellitol ointment. I tried to find it again where I bought it at a vet supply house on the net but could never find it again. I just found it it has been changed a bit and the name changed to Recalitol but the ingredients look very close. If you can get it just fill the ear canal ( its like a tube of tooth paste ) and leave for 1 week, then clean the ears and apply again. At the end of 2 weeks clean ears if they are well don’t do any thing if not fill the ears again and wait another week. It took 3 weeks for my hounds ears to heal but that was about a year ago that I did the pellotol. Once in the last year his ears started to smell again so I reapplied the pellitol and it stopped it. It is so nice to finally have something that actually works. We spent 5 years and many $ trying to heal his ears with no success. I got this from a natural vet in the whole dog journal she said the pills and ear antibiotics. don’t work after a while because the dogs become immune just like we do.
Glad you saw me, Betsy!
wonder if my audrey has this??: Many vets misdiagnose these things as “allergies”
if diet change hasn’t worked, you may consider that you dog really has this…
Allergy or Systemic Yeast Infection in Dogs | Allergies Malassezia Fungus Candida | GREATDANELADY.COM
the symptoms are the same as allergies.
😉 betadine works! It is a little bit gentler and contains providone, “(polyvinylpyrrolidone, PVP) is used in the pharmaceutical industry as a synthetic polymer vehicle for dispersing and suspending drugs…” I prefer not to use it, but it should be o.k. for those with healthier immune systems.
found this: Ears and feet typically is food. Medication will not work.
What foods has your pet been on? What are the main protein and carbohydrate sources in them? Usually it’s the protein or carb that is the problem and your food changes need to be made to a NOVEL source. Typically foods like venison or duck will work, depending on what your pup has been on.
My dog did wonderfully on Nature’s recipe Venison and Vegetarian formulas for her food allergies. She, too, had the chronic ear infections and excessive leg licking… all of which stopped when I changed her food.
yes.. ok, but why the right eye leaks and left not? see what im saying? i wonder if somehow, something is connected, and i dont mean literally, lol.. it has always been mostly the right eye and the right ear… just thinking, maybe a reason for that?
Not strange-she simply has a severe infection in one ear instead of two. On the bright side, if you elect to do surgery, its only one ear, and she will still have hearing in the good one.
It appears that Pellitol has been renamed Recalitol Ointment and is available under that name. Computer very slow today, so I could not find much info-
yes!! exactly, but odd as this may sound it is mainly only her right ear.. and its the right eye that will leak not the left… as now right ear is still totally closed:( left ear is fine.. i dont get it?
I have found pseudomonas to be susceptible to vinegar : )
The swollen canal often resembles a growth. Its deceiving. You expect to see a “hole” and instead it appears as a flap.
I usually go to the Brothers page with my off topic stuff, but will post this here since it seems relevant to the discussion. A friend gave me her old issue of Dog Fancy magazine and I was flipping through it waiting for my cases to be called in Court. I had forgotten that this was the issue with Marie’s picture in it – which of course jumped off the page at me! : ) Anyway, it was a dual issue of Dog Fancy and Dog Fancy’s Natural Dog. I especially love the Natural Dog part. There was an article about using Class 4 lasers and acupuncture ~ both of which my new vet does! There was also an article about Otitis and under the prevention section of the article they stated, “Apply ear drops to reduce allergic inflammation.” So, along with the Brothers, Darwins and Mercola probiotics, I wondered if there was something natural that could be used as a preventative to reduce inflammation and if so, is it necessary? I ordered the Astaxanthin from Mercola and plan to use that periodically in his ears at Toxed’s suggestion (although I’m also planning to take it myself ;). I heard Shawna say something about garlic and mullen (but wasn’t sure if that applied more specifically to Debbie’s dog, Audrey’s ear condition) and I also wondered if a drop of my beloved tea tree essential oil would be good yeast prevention in his ears? Toxed, I bought some Betadine (I couldn’t find plain iodine and the pharmacist said that Betadine was essentially the same thing, but in an already diluted form). So, I’ll dilute that a bit more and use it to clean Sam’s ears. Does that sound like a good idea, Toxed? I’ve been crazy busy and am beat ~ I hate that I’m missing all the fun here! Now, of course, the fastest hour of the day (my lunch) is over and I’m back to work. Miss y’all!
Trying to answer several things at once, so please bear with me : )
Pseudomonas is a **witch** to treat and its a long term diligent owner that is needed to do so. Unfortunately, too many people treat, watch it clear up, and stop the treatment after 10-14 days-when personally I have found that it takes at least 30 days, and then once a week maintenance to really keep it “gone” For anyone that has never dealt with psuedo, is smells like rotting flesh, and that is exactly what I think the ears look like. gross.
The last dog we had in rescue with horrible ears(cocker spaniel who surgery was recc for if tx did not work) was treated with mometamax, baytril otic in T8 liquid, and a separate hydrocoritisone drop to reduce the swelling and to get the ear canal to open. He also got an oral antibiotic. Pre treatment, we cleaned away as much hair as possible,(and yes Shawna, I agree-do not pluck anything and cause further irratation if the ears are already bad) Coupled with this, we put him on grain free food. It took about 6 weeks and the ears were gorgeous. Unfortunately his family did not keep up, and he ultimately had at least one surgery done.
Now I am going to “age myself”, lol. “back in the day” there used to be an ear product called Pellitol Ointment. It was a pasty, thick brown ointment cream that the vet would pack ears with for chronic infections. Your dog would then smell like smoked bacon, lol. The stuff worked. I can honestly say it was the cheapest, quickest method I ever saw used to resolve ear problems. It lost favor in the vet world it would seem and I no longer see if used. I am not sure if it can still be purchased, so perhaps you can google it and find out. Oh, and it was CHEAP.
I’ve staved off many an ear infection over the years with garlic/mullen oil.
If surgery is the only option then of course it should be done.. But only if it is the only viable option.. Often times I don’t think it really is..
ok, ty:), but that keto in it, she is also on that in pill form now.. its ok for both?and being 6 mo old is ok? thank you:)
okay, it looks a little old but it has the ketoconazole in it. fil the ear up completely and massage around the outside to work it in then swab out as much as possible and that should work just fine.
yes I have.. and I honestly feel nothing has changed.. im afraid of the surgery, also am trying to get my daughter to come out, if even for a few months.. i just dont get what has happened to this ear of hers:( as i swear to u, the first sign of infection i had her at the vet, etc…
Debbie …It sounds like you have been fighting this fight for some time and the vet may be right… surgery may be the best option….
shawna, i keep trying to e mail you, and yes, lol the correct way, and it wont go through, very odd.. This is an invalid email address:
so e mail me at: lookatallthebooks@yahoo dot com
ps ok i just found another bottle of this other stuff, but im thinking may be to old? from a vet here is what it says: Dechra..trizultra+keto flush, date on here is….may, 4th, 2012
toxed, yes I kinda knew that, kinda:), i get other blood work drawn every 3-6 mo for toxic level of dilatin:(
Blood panels are extremely limited. They don’t tell the whole story. Your “blood panel” won’t show toxic injuries or nutritional deficiencies. There are several diseased states that a person can have, that can kill them and they won’t show up on a regular blood panel until its almost too late.
An “environmental pollutants panel” is far more proactive and comprehensive.
no, sorry but i dont:(, thats what the vet told me on phone though, to flush ear now first, before applying the other stuff, i asked with what then? he said whatever you have or can get, i explained that im broke right now, as all my last money went to him:(, he said, well, then i just dont know what to tell you there…. well maybe he should have thought about that when i was there…:(
I personally wouldn’t pluck the hairs (or shave for that matter) when the ear is already inflammed and infected. I’m betting Melissa would agree with that.. I don’t see any harm in carefully trimming the hairs back with small scissors though — as long as it isn’t causing Audrey any pain that is…
Interesting about garlic used in the ear.. I would have never thought of that!
I think that really the key is.. we don’t know how damaged the ear is or the underlying causes. If the vet is recommending surgery than maybe that is the best option.
It is pretty amazing how severely changed ears can become.
yep ur right, i had it checked when i had all that blood work done as that dr wanted, lol to find something wrong with me to prove being veg/vegan was not good, lol.. he was shocked, as all came out fine… but your right, it could have been that, ill need to find what i did and post to you, re the numb lips, scared me:(
debbie, please do know that you must flush the ear and dry it before you apply mometamax for it to work properly…..do you have another flushing fluid? Oti-Cleanse or MalAcetic-Oti or something-oti??
that would be great, ty, i want to try to stick with the brothers, as it seems from all i hear here, it will be the best for her? but a list of the dry, canned, and prebiotics would be great… i asked 2 vets here re the prebiotics and i was asked why would i want to give her that?? lol, unreal…
no, they have in all these yrs never done that test, I have asked them over and over and all I keep hearing is well your money is tight.. ahh yea but my vet bills have been 100-400 at a shot!! so really that test should have been done, you are right and thats what i wanted, but kept being told not needed, and you are exactly right, w/ her right ear esp. it gets totally closed where that liquid wont even go in at all…. last vet says cause there is a growth there, vet before him said its swollen no growth, i have heard so many different things:(
yes I have always done that, even when i could not get her full groom in pa I had just her ears done.. but here in mo $$ has been well tight, due to all the vet bills and meds, and to get the ears alone done is 20 dollars, I need to in time buy that shaver, and a little scissor, my daughter used to do her ears pretty good….i was told not to pluck the hair out, only cut.. is that not true?
I’m wondering if the infection is never completely erradicated by the meds?? If it is pseudomonasm which is antibiotic resistant, maybe it isn’t getting cleared??
Email me at shawnadfaemail(@)yahoo(dot)com and I will reply back to you. Remove the () when sending — you will see people add these, or otherwise disquise their email addresses, to prevent auto-spamming.
she has been having ear n skin infections for approx. 4-5 yrs, and she just turned 6 this past may:(, they started to get worse, occuring more, and worse about 3 yrs ago, and since I moved to missouri, for whatever the reasons, they have gotten out of control, she basically has lived on meds half of each month:(
vet called told me not to be giving audrey the lquid ear drops, the one withe batril in it, he said he forgot to tell me not to use that one, only the momomax, or whatever it is, how nice of him to tell me days later:(
yes, and i do take her back to the vet when i am supposed to, i make sure i get all the meds, etc, and give them the way im supposed to, as though in the vets letter, you read that once the meds stop the ear infections come back:(
thank you, you know i dont know if the ear drum is damaged i have asked the vets this and they tell me they dont know:(, there is however in her right ear, when she seems to get the infection, it looks like a piece of skin, literally over the opening, i have had 2 vets tell me since may that either its a growth, or a tumor, or it just looks like that due to all the swelling.. never get a full answer:(
Aaaaaaw!!!!!!! Shawna, Right back at you!!!!!! I’m constantly blown away by your knowledge, and your generosity!!!!!! You continue to give and help others dispite juggling so any responsibilities, projects and “hats” it would make a circus performer dizzy!!!! You are my hero!!!!!!!!!! XOXO
shawna, can you please e mail me? thanks
Thank you very very much doggone!!! Made my day 😉 We both think the world of you!!!!
I have to add — Toxed blows my mind!!! Not only with her knowledge base but also knowing home much pain and discomfort she is in on a very regular basis but manages to stay so positive!!!
Thanks Toxed for being such a wonderful friend to all of us and for being so willing to share all you know even when you’re so toxed you can’t even get off the couch!!!!! You’re my hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS — I was on the phone when you called.. I’ll call you back early afternoon. Waiting for a call form my boss.. He’s in Jamaica right now… JEALOUS
Pseudomonas seems to be antibiotic resistant but a quick search online shows that garlic is effective at killing pseudomonas. Once the infection is cleared up, it seems that using mullen and garlic ear drops (which can be purchased premade) might be a possible prevention worth trying before resorting to surgery.
Here’s some other, inexpensive, possible solutions before resorting to surgery. http://viim.org/canine-feline-pseudomonas-aeruginosa-otitis-resistant.php
If the ear has been permanently damaged then surgery may be the best option — I don’t know?
Thanks Melissa — I noticed one of the meds is a pretreatment or cleanser and the other has anti inflammatory aspects.. Not saying all the meds aren’t needed. Just seems like three broad spectrum antibiotics is a bit of an overkill.
Based on the meds this dog is on and this article I’d bet that the vet IS treating for pseudomonas.
Is HC hydrocortisone??? If so HC is a weak cortisone. Her vet has the dog on oral steroid and the steroid in mometamax is a very strong steroid.
Also if I remember right the dog is on a triz edta/baytril mix which is also recommended in this article.
Sounds like continuous care and rechecking with the vet are very important. Treating for a short time here and there won’t be effective. But if canal changes are severe the infections will be recurrent. This could be why the surgery was recommended.
Melissa, You make an excellent point. especially about the hydro-cortisone. But doesn’t Baytril Otic contain salicylic acid? aspirin is no substitute for cortisone but it is an anti-inflammatory that should also help with the swelling? not sure that’s why I ask.
You shave the complete inner ear flap, especially around the ear canal opening, then you pluck out the hair in the canal itself. If your dog is overgrown, no amount of meds are going to do the trick as the environment inside the ear will remain moist and warm.
Shawna, I just wrote on your fb wall
Cockers are really really prone to horrible ear issues resulting in ear canal ablations. But, one thing strikes as a little “off” in my personal experience with cocker ears-the infections usually result in a swollen ear canal-making it VERY difficult for the baytril otic and mometamox to get into the ear canal. Typically a HC solution is used at some point(at least with the ones I have dealt with) to reduce the swelling, allowing the meds in to work.
debbie-did they ever do a cytology to see WHAT the infection is? The hardest to treat is usually pseudomonas, but not impossible.
Is there someone here who could EMAIL Debbie a list of recommended dry foods, canned foods and probiotics? I’m confused reading everyones posts and I am sure she is, too. If someone can do that, it would make it easier for her.
Sounds like paresthesia. It could be a B itamin deficiency. Especially B12,
Here’s a quote… ‘I have just been diagnosed with B12 & Folate Deficiency, after 7 years !! Are these symptoms of this deficiency ? Foggy/ Impaired thinking, Difficulty in speaking clearly, Constant fatigue, Chills, even when it’s warm weather, blue nails, blue lips, frequently urinating, disorientation, dizziness, numbness in face and body, muscle spasms in face and body, nervous energy/ depression Rapid heartbeat/Flutters etc ……… Please can anyone identify with these symptoms ??? And the answer… “These can be symptoms of a B-12 deficiency. Vegans and vegetarians suffer from this quite often. I suggest you not guess about this, but get tested by a Certified Nutritional Therapist that can tell you for sure. A B-12, folic acid, and b-6 deficiency causes your blood to contain lots of homocystein proteins that cause heart disease as a result of the blood becoming sticky and the inner walls of the arteries to be sticky as well. It is far worse than worrying about cholesterol issues that doctors are pushing these days that is so off track of what is creating heart problems.
You may also want to check your thyroid because some of the symptoms you are describing is indicative of a low thyroid condition. This is typically due to iodine deficiencies. “
thank you, im gonna try to go to bed now, as in past weeks i have been going to sleep at 2, 3 4 am and yet getting up at 5, 6 7 am, as thats when i get audrey out, its the meds, they make her urinate alot… anyhow my lips, not really burning, they get totally numb, i mean really numb where i cant feel them:( i looked it up online n i actually forget what it said but i know it was bad:( n really scared me,what is contact VOC;s? also my both feet, not tops, but the bottom of both my feet have been nub n tingly for 3 yrs or so:(, 24/7.. and at times my hands will go totally numb.. well night, and you are the bomb:) you and so many more here have helped me w/ audrey so much… and your right, i have to stay well for her, yet im in a bad state of depression and i know she feels it to:(
Thank you. Sorry to hear you’re having so many health problems, yourself. Try to remember, you have to take care of you, so you can take care of Audrey. :-}
Try rinsing your lips in Epsom, baking soda or vinegar and water. Many times its contact VOCs that make mine burn.
Lol, in my previous post back to you, I meant to say your the “greatest”, something got messed up, im very stressed today, n head still hurts, and my lips went numb again, has been happening alot, bottom n top lip goes totally numb:(
ty, again:), I was told with cockers u dont cut the hair out, u shave, and cut… yes i need to do that, as 20 dollars just to do her ears is un real:( and now she has alot of hair in there, not good for the infection… gonna try tomorrow for now to use hair scruncies again to tie her ears up…
wow, ur the freatest, and I mean that:), what I have is: mushers secret, and bag balm… gee, so i have the wrong stuff??:( i did not buy it sad part, a lady who really cares about audrey did, and had it shipped to me.. no on the cinn sticks:( right now bad month for me , not much food for me either, but u know i dont care, i worry about audrey more…
Straight vinegar will burn. That’s why you cut it with water 1:4. Don’t over do the balm. If its petroleum based, its toxic and she’ll ingest it while licking it off. Try raw or manuka honey, cover with beeswax & coconut oil.
The Meds are toxic, so they just make it burn worse.
Do you have a Ceylon cinnamon stick? Simmer that in water and decant into a spray bottle. Spray that on. Cuts the pain. (The apply the beeswax balm.)
No school. I got an e-book. Watched a lot of videos. Cleaning hair out of ears is very easy. When you have some discretionary funds, get ear powder & forceps. Then watch some videos.
krissy, I just seen one of your posts to me in my e mail, and tryed to reply to it but it wont let me , if you want to prvt e mail me feel free, I wanted to thank you, for caring, in your post I just read you had mentioned if people wanted to send food to me for audrey, that was sweet… I thank you
Yes that will make your pic or what ever you choose to show up when you post with the email it is registered to.
Lol, dont worry I was not really gonna use the duct tape…..
ty:), but will that make the pic be here on my posts?
ty, again.. u need to get paid for this:), you know I read that , what you mentioned here somewhere online i think on a cocker site, yet it said not to use any vinegar until she stops licking, as the licking has them sore enough and the vinegar will burn, i have mushers for her pads, and a balm.. but that just goes on the bottom , the pads it has not stopped her from biting, chewing , licking, like this am wow she was really going at it:(u would think all the meds she is on would have made the licking stop, no?
Aaaaawww! Thank you Doggone!! I think you’re pretty special too!
yes a lady here grooms her own 5 cockers, but she wont do audrey:(, she wont do any, just her own, I want to in time get the shaver and the scissor i need to at least cut the hair inside, and shave the insides… did u go to grooming school? yes audrey caught fleas before from groomers:(
:), ohh I for sure have:), in a few short days I have learned so much here.. even though it seems everyone is against a veg or a vegan diet for dogs:(, lol I think it was here, the vet on her video, said some dogs have to be on it, if they have allergies to meat etc, and some dogs with the proper diet w/ no meat will do fine.. usually I only join vegan places online, as obviously we need to be with like minded people, but in whole I feel comfy here now, and we are all people and here to help each other w/ our dogs, and thats all that should count:)
Yep. I do my own clipping because poodle salons are very stinky. Sometimes I don’t have enough hands to hold back her ears when clipping her face… I get uncoordinated when toxed. So I use these. Some times 2. I just catch the hair, not the leathers.
If you rinse them with cider vinegar/water or even just water, frequently, it will be better. She will ingest the toxins again by licking them. The vinegar will help detox the compounds and soothe her pads. Another thing that would be helpful is Epsom salt soaking. It will draw the toxins out faster. In fact soaking her whole body in an Epsom salt bath would be good, too.
wow ty toxed:), so does it work good?
go to https://en(dot)gravatar(dot)com and follow directions to add a picture to your registered email
ahh, ok ty.. speaking of that, how do I ad a pic on here, and can I become a reg user, not a guest? ty:)
I use an “alligator” or “claw” clip for children’s hair on Rosie’s ears. Like this, http://www.amazon.com/Vidal-Sassoon-Small-Flare-Clips/dp/B007OT1R20/ref=sr_1_51?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1352254299&sr=1-51&keywords=claw+clips
disqus is just acting very weird the past few days. some of my posts have disappeared. and my avatar is showing up on my screen anymore.
lol, well even though im 59 yrs old i have waist length hair, everyone says cut it your to old, so I have a ton of those things, lol, scrunchies, hair ties etc, tryed it all, i guess she will have duct tape on soon, loll other thing is i was trying to get her groomed every month, when i get my funds, it is 40 dollars, and i noticed she hated it there, and when she got shaved on her back she was all knicked up, pretty badly:(, so I was gonna take her this mo just to get the hair in the ears shaved n cut out,. but that alone is 20 dollars, a definite ripp off… need to find a place when i get $$ that can remove the hair in her ears less then that.. im looking to my right on my screen as im typing here and i see posts that have been posted today that i never got?:(, do we only get the ones of the subject we are on? i thought any posts would come to us?
debbie, If you haven’t figured it out by now Toxed and Shawna are totally AWESOME!
just kidding about the duct tape…..use a clothes pin…. no really you could also try bobby pins.
you know what? I dont think I seen this post before? or did I reply? lol, I dont recall it and I was waiting for a reply.. you are the bomb!!!!!:), you know I asked 4 vets this since april, and the answers to why she bites, n licks her paws were this: she has dirt on them, she stepped into something, whatever shampoo you use on her has irritated her, and on and on, not a one knew what you do, unreal.. and this is why I pay vets????so, its actually good now that she is licking them?
The probiotics you could probably just use a few days per week and as far as the ears, do you have any of those stretchy head bands that women use to hold their hair back? something like that would work either that or duct tape! ;o}
ohh, ok, i dont know where i got merrick from? its a dog food right? someone had to mention it, lol, is this expensive? but I dont give it daily either right?
yes, u know I have tryed for yrs to put her ears up/back, even when she had no bad ear infection, as a way to just let air in there, etc.. and still cant find a way…:( but ty, as a reminder from you, I will maybe even reserach online to see how others do it, as im sure some people do
when you clean her ears if you could find a way to pin her ears back so they dry better and wait a good 45-60 minutes before you put the drops in they will work a whole lot better. just a thought
the probiotics are from Mercola (dot) com
my post just disappeared so I’ll try posting it differently. Abady Vitality A and Abady Apex1 are both available online from 1800whiskers (dot) com
where do u get the abadys? delivered to u? and the probiotics, thats the merrick right?
The Brothers Allergy kibble and the Abady’s canned Apex1 & Vitality were designed specifically to address all the problems you are having/experiencing right now with Audrey. I would also add some more probiotics periodically for the first few months.
Yes I did. and I can understand why each were prescribed. As I said before your vet is treating the symptoms but not really treating the underlying cause of each individual problem. I’m not a vet or a medical person by any means but I have seen it all before.
:), yes I do recall your post and guess what? I saved it:), still in my e mail in a folder, w/ all the ones, many I may ad that I found very helpful, and I agree with you, and will be doing that, if $$ permits, as once these meds are gone, I will need to come up w/ more $$ for the vet to do it for 2 more weeks, I am trying…I will be going w/ the brothers food n the canned on top… did you read the list of meds? and the letter from the vet? thank you:)
debbie, back on Sunday I made a recommendation. I will repost it for you “My advice is to continue the meds that were prescribed and continue them for an extra two weeks after the symptoms have disappeared. AND in the mean time get the dog on a proper diet. What worked best for me is a combination of Brothers Allergy formula kibble and Abady’s canned food either Vitality or Apex.( and no sugary treats) You will start to see a difference within the first three weeks. And in six to eight months you will have a completely cured dog. You can continue to give your money to the vet or you can spend it on a healthy diet that your dog will thrive on. Oh, yeah,a dog can survive on just about any diet but to truly thrive they need a proper and balanced diet that is species appropriate.” If you follow this advice I firmly believe you will break the cycle for once and for all. Audreys ears will clear up you will no longer need cyclosporine (it is an anti rejection drug) and you most probably will not need the thyroid meds anymore either once her system gets back to normal. Only you can make that decision.
ty:), im gonna do that.. even when she was eating the dry kibble vegan food now n then i would get the canned and give her some, she loved it.. guess it has a better, different taste… good for a change, i guess as that was canned vegan it did not have any extra protein though? not sure…
krissy, I never replyed to your post here, cause I just seen it, I dont think it came in my e mail, odd… anyhow I was not giving anyone the run around.. I did give prices of what I was able to afford, maybe the posts got messed up?
Well I don’t feed canned food, my dogs eat just raw. I would just add a spoonful or so, like Shawna suggested, daily. You ca also mash the canned up with some warm water to stretch it out so it coats the kibble completely.
I can see the need for all of them (except the three different kinds of broad spectrum antibiotics)… Is three really necessary? However as Toxed mentioned, they are adding to the toxic burdon Audrey is currently dealing with.
Since euthanasia was a recommendation (and therefore I would have to assume that Audrey is pretty ill) I wouldn’t mess with the recommended drugs but work towards eliminating the need for them at all..
Thyroid pills are not always necessary with hypothyroid (I didn’t take them for mine) but once they are started they are usually needed for life. However it may be that you can go with the absolute lowest dosage.
Foods can cause allergies and intolerances. Those allergies and intolerances generate things like histamine.. AND inflammation — that inflammation can settle anywhere in the body (my dairy allergy has caused me joint pains, sinusitis (without infection), rashes etc.. By eliminating the food (if it is food) that is causing the inflammation you effectively relieve the inflammation in the area it settled. If the inflammation goes away the dry eye may improve (or possibly even go away?). If it improves at the very least you will be able to lower the dosage..
At the very least, if it is allergies, you should be able to wean her off prednisone. And pred comes with its own set of side effects so……
Toxins, wether dietary or environmental, are expressed in 3 ways. Pee’d out, lymph dump into the lower intestine, so pooped out, or sweated out through the skin. Dogs sweat through their paws. Toxins itch & burn as they are expressed, when you are immune compromised. Remember, they aren’t being broken down into non-toxic by products… I don’t believe she actually has “allergies”, they involve a histemic reaction. It’s toxins. Her skin is reacting to expressed toxins. Even the blisters. The fluid in the blisters is “lymphatic fluid!!!!” Her system is desperately trying to get rid of toxins. The lymph system & the sweating mechanism are interrelated.
Let me know
HDM posted some options to look at!!
IF you go with Brothers food then I would just add a tablespoon on top of the kibble.. Don’t want to dilute the probiotics too much.
If you use another food that doesn’t have probiotics you can use as much canned as you want keeping in mind to lower the amount fed of the kibble to compensate for the extra calories of the canned food.
I don’t remember how to add a picture (avatar). Someone will pipe up that knows..
You can also attach a picture to your post, look in the lower left corner of the posting box. There is a “+ Image” button. If you click on that button it will allow you to upload a picture.
Those are definitely better priced then what I pay!!!!! Thanks for the suggestions HDM..
I pay about $3.50 per can for Weruva Human Style, $2.35-2.50 per can for Merrick (not the before grain) and my hubby bought Fromm to try that was $2.45 a can.. These were all bought locally… Likely better priced if we ordered in but I like to shop local when able..
ty.. so what do u all do? add a bit of the canned daily to the dry or raw?? or whole can? so how much is the merrick that she mentioned? and is it every day, or just every now n then?
exactly… ok, well im gonna try to get the borax today, but not to tell my $$ issues, lol (as if I have not already), but when I say broke, I really mean broke, yea I was shocked that they did not say no smoking here…. they give me a hard time re my dog, yet others smoke and ruin the walls and make others sick, etc… its kinda shady here, when i moved in they said all was cleaned painted etc etc, I seen it was not, manager kept trying to fight w/ me re it…im hoping not to be here long, as to much goes on that i dont want to deal with…. cats that come in the hall n use the bathroom, other day walking audrey outside she ate some of it, before i could get her away:(, as im sitting here typing to u, i can smell the smoke coming from his apt next door, boy walls must be really thin here… im sure its not good for audrey at all either… i keep windows open as much as i can, im excited re a new food… as im set on not putting audrey to sleep n am hoping my daughter will come even if just for a little while… im learning more here though then anywhere, but the more i think im getting to know something else re a food pops up…where, off topic.. does the paw licking n her chewing on her feet come from? food allergy?
Just happened to catch this part of the conversation.
I really like Shawna’s suggestions for canned. But, like she said, they’re both a bit pricey. My picks for high protein budget friendly canned would be 4health – I caught that your dog has yeast issues so you’re trying to avoid grains – their stew varieties are grain-free and have 44% protein on a dry matter basis, they run $0.99 per can. Merrick Whole Earth Farms also has a reasonably priced canned food, grain-free, ~41% protein and from what I’ve seen it runs about $1.65 per can. The By Nature 95% meat varieties are grain-free about 45% protein and run about $1.65 per can as well. I’m a little iffy about Evanger’s foods, but they do have some all meat varieties that are grain-free, about 45% protein, and run around $1.25 per can.
Shawna, so what do u think re all the meds she is on now? and is it sake her being on the eye drops n thyroid pills for life??:(, also, what did you feel re the vets letter? thanks so much for all of this
Losing battle? Yes, but you can’t afford to give up. Cost of borax, depending on where you get it, $3-4.
HUD apt being stinky, odd? No. HUD caters to low income and people with all kinds of disabilities. Currently, they aren’t going to tell those that smoke that they can’t, they are just required to provide “special policies, practices & procedures” for their services for those that need them, that their normal policies, practices and proceedures, exclude. When enough people recognize their need for non-toxic accommodations, it will become the norm. Or if things go according to plan, it will be standard, in 2-3 years.
ty so very much.. I am waiting to hear back from my daughter, as me n audrey really need her now, more then ever… i have heard of merrick, so how much $$ are you talking? do u give your dogs 1 whole can on top of dry, or rw? or just a little at a time? I am literally willing to do all i can to keep her alive n make her healthy.. shawna, how do i add a pic of her here on my pro?
The canned food that I use and know to be high protein may not be within your budget?? — Merrick Before Grain, Weruva etc. Hopefully some others here will have recommendations for high protein, reasonably priced canned foods.. Sandy and Hound Dog Mom, and others, are really good at these types of suggestions..
Sandy, are you still reading this thread?
And I don’t think you are being selfish at all.. I really do think there is hope for Audrey so it would be an absolute shame to have her euthanized…
shawna, what kind of canned dog food do u think? i know it sounds dumb but audrey n me r al each other really has now:( i know thats selfish, sorry, but im being honest.. and she is a sweet dog… i mean a very sweet dog…i cant even imagine having her put to sleep:(
tox, ty soo much, so how much do u think it is? but as long as im in this apt n as long as this man lives next to me , it will be a losing battle right? im hoping that my daughter will see that me n audrey desperatly need her now, at least for a while, n then we will look for a small 2 bedroom home to rent, or a 2 bedroom apt, w/out all these issues:( ohh n btw this apt im renting is hud, odd huh?
That doesn’t sound odd to me at all!!! Most of us (TI) get a letter from our doctors, specifying that we NEED a stand alone dwelling, due to our disability. It’s recognized by most HUD offices and is supported as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA. The fact is that the smoke/fragrances/chemicals passes thru/around the walls and contaminates the entire structure. You are TI, and when you’re ready for that battle, let me know.
Borax is real cheap. It’s on the laundry detergent aisle, though. TIs send the courtesy clerk to get it for them.
Shawna, thank you so very much, and im sitting here crying now, literally… i have that letter in front of me and whenever i read that i cry.. as to why when audrey went to the vet a few days ago, i did not go back to that vet:( as she has told me if i cant afford the surgery, then she is refusing to give any more meds, she feels i should put her to sleep:(, and yes she is still taking the predisone, all the meds i listed to you, she is currently on…. i went to a vet a few days that i seen a few mo ago, and my bill was over 200 for vet n meds, as to why im broke now:(
I think I (may have) included that in my recommendation, in addition to the astaxanthin. I know that I’ve used turmeric for years. This summer they finally got the formula for the astaxanthin clean enough for me to take it. Hugh difference! HUGH!!! It’s at least 900 times more powerful than C. I’d do both for the synergy, and the wider array of healing properties.
I’d like them to know more, and education is improving (not by much, though), but people have nutritionists… why not dogs? Vets should just know they don’t have a strong education in nutrition and advise visiting somebody that does instead of going with the little knowledge they have.
WOW — she recommended euthanasia Made me cry reading that :(……..
It could take some (even a lot) of effort and trying different things but I do think there is hope for Audrey!!! And, if you can swing the cost, I do think Brothers is the best route to start with.. I, if you can, would also consider (at least for now) adding a high protein canned food to the kibble… To up the protein content while fighting off the yeast. Yeast, as you have already figured out, thrive on sugar. By adding calories from protein you lower the calories consumed from carbs..
I currently have a small credit with Brothers… If you are willing to really really really give Brothers a try (knowing that symptoms will likely get worse before getting better) —- you can have my credit so you can get a bag on the way.. If you want it, I’ll call and find out how much it is and let them know you’ll be using it…. It should be enough to get you one bag..
I honestly did not really, well not much at all start the cleaning, woke up w/ a bad miagrane, feeling very stressed due to a situation re my young daughter, im actually hoping she can come out here, soon, like asap, to help re audrey, as audrey being sick, n me not doing well, and my apt is on 2nd floor;(, and this way she can get a job here n help with audreys foods and supplements, i bought audrey for my daughter, but whenever she left home audrey stayed with me , as im pretty much the caretaker of her and with a income even though it may not be much, poor audrey is also greiving for my daughter, as they were close and I know thats not helping her condition either, the borax i dont have here, and have to see how much it is, as im pretty broke now:( and i dont have a vacuum yet:( see i moved here in april from pa and sold most of what i had:( but if my daughter comes, i know she will help re the cleaning to, etc… but i dont think the borax is much, right? so im gonna see if i can get it, and start, other issue is i know this may sound odd to you, but the man in the apt next door to me , well he is a heavy smoker, and i dont know how, but the smell from his smoke is literally coming into my apt, dont know how, as there is no vent connecting..
I wonder if turmeric might do just the same as astaxanthin but much less expensive??? It’s rich in antioxidants but maybe not the right kinds?
I looked at your list of Meds: cringe, cringe cringe. IMHO, she can get off all of them by removing dietary & environmental toxins and boosting her immune system. ALL those Meds are toxic, and contribute to other health problems.
How are you doing on cleaning? I forgot to tell you to keep her off the carpet when the borax is down, until you vacuum.
That is some list of meds!!! UGHH No wonder you have no money!!!!
I’m assuming the cyclosporine is for dry eye.. Finding the cause of the inflammation MAY allow for a decrease in the amount of med given.. I had a friend on another site that was able to lower the dose of cyclosporine used after she found what her dog was reacting to.
The thyroid meds may be able to be reduced with diet change AND with environmental changes.. Vaccinations is a trigger for thyroid issues (as is other meds like flea/tick meds). Until your pup is “healthy” and mostly unmedicated, I would limit the number of vaccines and preventatives used.. Dr. Jean Dodds is the US veterinary expert on the thyroid. She mentions vaccines/flea/tick etc in this video interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcjDMv985l8
ketoconazole is probably being used for systemic candida (which if you get on the right food could be eliminated sooner then later).
Orbax, batril and mometamax are all broad spectrum antibiotics.. Do you really need them all? Trizedta helps clean the ear and prep it for the antibacterial.. Those ears must be in pretty bad shape :(.. Obviously you will discontinue use of these but the diet change should help so you don’t need them again in the future. I would also follow Melissa recommendations and keep the hair in the ears trimmed.
Because of the multiple antibiotics you will NEED to include a good quality probiotic in the diet or the yeast will have a better opportunity to come right back.. Another reason Brothers would be a good choice. On other foods you would need the food as well as a good quality probiotic.
By changing the environmental toxins and whatever is causing the allergies (my guess is one of the grains) you should hopefully see some really good improvements but it will take time — meaning months to even a year. Are you no longer giving prednisone?
very true, but i agree with you totally, but i also feel and have for a long time, that they should be required to know about nutrition, esp when it concerns a dog that can be sick from food allergies…
ahh, yes you did, and so has betsy, i have plans to try to get it on dec 3rd, and hoping my daughter will come out here asap, to help me re audrey, etc… but ty for the reminder:), please read the vets letter i just posted to shawna, and i also posted all the meds
Shawna(and whoever else concerned re audrey) to whom it may concern, I am writing this letter on behalf of audrey, a 6 yr old cocker spaniel, spayed. belonging to debra, i have been seeing audrey as a patient since july 13th, 2012, i have diagnosed audrey with: KCS(keratoconjunctivitis sicca or “dry eye”, hypothyroidism, chronic bilateral otitis externa, and potential food allergy.she has been on both oral and topical antibiotics for her ears almost continuously since july because as soon as she is off medications her ears get worse again. i have recommended that audrey have a total ear canal ablation, surgery. as a last resort because it is not practical or ideal for her to have to be on antibiotics continuously. i dont prefor this surgery but have given debra the name of a vet that does, I have talked to debra about euthanasia if she cant afford the surgery, she does not want to do that, ideally audrey is a great candidate for the surgery, debra is going to try to come up with the funds for the surgery through donations, help etc. this letter is writen as if anyone is willing to help debra, she has gone far and beyond what i have seen many people do to help audrey.
Hey debbie, I said this before, but I’ll repeat it because you’re getting swamped with info.
Get mercola’s astaxanthin. Antioxidants help mitigate the reactions from toxins coming in or out, like in detox.
I was commenting on the post that said her dog was not hungry while eating the homemade vegan diet saying that the vegan diet is high in fiber. But I used a high fiber kibble (not a vegan kibble) as an example of how the high fiber diet kibble (which happens to have lots of plant material) can make a dog feel full.
I honestly believe the vast majority of vets mean well, but due to lack of education they don’t know anything about nutrition other than what salesmen for companies like Hill’s tell them.
I worked for a vet years back, before I knew anything about nutrition, and a lot of patients got Hill’s, Royal Canin, or Purina. I thought it was all good, but I was wrong.
:), exactly and thank you.. what makes me so mad is how it is sold at the vets… of course they im sure get a big kick back, but where is the concern for the animals?
I was speaking about dog food in general, but I think she may have been referring to the vegan diet in regards to people… not dogs. My apologies if that’s the case.
And yes, Hill’s makes Science Diet, so the names are used interchangeably. And if anybody recommends Science Diet, and it’s not at least for a medical reason, then just nod your head politely before walking away and disregarding everything they said about nutrition.
PS — I’m sorry you aren’t feeling well today!! I’m sure the stress of getting this figured out is not helping matters at all
Yeah, unfortunately there usually isn’t a way around it.. Yeast die off creates toxins but having a yeast infection is worse.. The thing is though — even if the symptoms get worse, the pup may very well feel better even with the increased sympotms..
I would encourage you to actually call and talk with Richard @ Brothers too (even if you go with a different food).. Richard has had a bad, systemic, yeast infection and can give you first hand info on what is going on.. He also has a great way of explaining things..
I’m still looking at the meds but will post shortly..
ok, let me find the letter, brb, but so what do u think re all the meds?? and im confused as to what you said re the food change, as it will make her better, yet when all the toxins come out she will get sicker, right? so, what to do then? nothing:(
Type away :)… There may be something in there that would help with recommendations?
Bryan, but that hills diet was not vegan, it had chicken etc.. my old vet begged me mo ago to get science diet and from looking into it ages ago i knew i would not, she thought it was cause i wanted vegan, it had nothing to do with vegan or not, the ingredients looked bad… very bad, worse then the hills, which i guess is same company, right?
I just meant price wise…
Brothers has been used by many here to help with bad (whole body) yeast infections very successfully. It has added probiotics in amounts that appear to be beneficial (for many here).. It also used carbs that are utilized less by yeast.. Basically, the yeast starve on foods like Brothers.
However, as yeast die off they emit toxins so it is quite common for a worsening of symptoms even though the food is actually helping. Do keep this in mind with whatever food you decide to go with…
This site isn’t about financial planning, this is about giving advice on dog food. If debbie says something won’t work, for whatever reason, then we’ll go from there. Until then, how about you relax on the “she can’t afford” thing. Okay?
The source of the protein is more important than the protein content. A dog’s system is not set-up to digest plant-based protein, so no matter how much of it there is it’s not ideal.
And that list of ingredients looks horrible.
If telling the truth is being rude, I guess I’m guilty as charged. Sorry, but I will not coddle people, and tell them what they want to hear. I will only offer the truth, it will set you free….. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A VEGETARIAN DOG. Now I’m off to get my country back, and yes I’m clinging to my guns & religion!!!!!
ps if dont mind getting bored?? I would like to type here for you, and anyone else concerned re audrey, a letter from the vet, which she tells about audreys conditions;(, up to you all, dont want to bore everyone with a long post…
Shawna, odd I went to reply to this post of urs and it brought up one i replyed to from someone else already, lol.. very strange, ok here is what she is on now, except as i said she the vet said eye drops n thyroid will be for her lifetime:(, i woke up w/ a bad miagrane headache, so please excuse any typos( then my usual, lol):
thyroid pills 2 daily, one in am one at pm called:thyroxine L 0.4 mg(soloxine)says it is for her hypothyroidism, eye drops one drop in each eye every other day, cyclosporine 2% opth.10 ml., meds on now prednisone 5 mg , ketoconazole 200 mg, half pill 2 times per day, orbax 68 mg, 1 pill one time per day, mometamax for ears, 8 drops per ear 1 time a day, trizedta liquid w/ batril in it, once per day fill ears, each day;(
hills? that is made by science diet right? ohh i dont like that brand for alot of reasons:(, so pretty much they are cheap fillers? dont quote me here, but here is some of the things I did making her homemade diet, and hardly ever canned or frozen always i used fresh n mostly organic: potatoes, sweet potatoes, brown rice, apples, bananas, beans, green beans, broccoli, carrots, spinache, tomatoes, and a few more things cant recall i made it in big batches and would freeze n refrigerate it, it got hard as if i ran out, etc.. plus i did worry if she was getting all needed, I went pretty strictly by the recipes for vegan homemade dog food….ohh n a tsp of plain yogurt…but i felt it was not right, just a instinct u know? thats when i stayed on the nat bal vegan food, but hated that, smelled bad, and not cheap…
Sure, having med names could help.. What was the diagnosis that necessitated the eye drops. Yeah, thyroid meds are usually required for a lifetime. But, you may be able to lower the dosage at some point?
Good morning debbie, How are you doing today? I see by your more recent posts that you are getting a handle on things.
I hope this is not too soon, if it is, and you’re feeling overwhelmed again, copy it off and save it somewhere, and come back to it later. There’s tons more info, of course, but I don’t want to overwhelm you. :-} so here’s a slice… (Because Disqus only allow a few links or your automatically dumped into the spam folder, I took out the “.” And replaced them with “(dot)”. You’ll have to reverse that.)
—– Soy www(dot)estrogendominanceguide(dot)com/soy-and-estrogen-dominance
“It has now been found that soy is an active promoter of estrogen dominance, which, as we know, not only causes numerous uncomfortable and life disrupting symptoms but can also lead to diseases such as breast cancer and other potentially fatal conditions. Here’s the problem. Soy is a phytoestrogen-containing substance. Phytoestrogens are naturally occurring estrogen-like compounds found in a variety of foods, spices and herbs and are especially prevalent in soy. Although phytoestrogens are weak compared to real estrogen and xenoestrogens, it is still additional estrogen that a body already laboring from the effects of too much estrogen does not need. If consumed on a regular basis, soy can boost estrogen levels significantly. Other Negative Effects of Soy Adding fuel to the estrogen dominance fire is not the only negative effect of soy. It also has several other undesirable effects on your health. Soy contains high levels of phytic acids. Phytic acids impair your body’s ability to absorb needed minerals such as iron, calcium, copper, magnesium and zinc. Without those essential minerals, our bodies can face serious consequences. A lack of minerals can affect nerve function, brain development, wound healing, reproductive health and other bodily functions. Soy also has a negative affect on the thyroid because it contains goitrogens, a substance which interferes with the absorption of iodine. Soy inhibits the production of the active thyroid hormone known as T3. The lack of T3 can cause hypothyroidism, which causes fatigue and weight gain in adults and stunted growth in children. Goitrogens also encourage the development of goiters. High levels of aluminum are found in soy as well. Aluminum is toxic to the nervous system and also causes damage to the kidneys. Soy is also rich in enzyme suppressors which makes it more difficult for your body to digest proteins and some carbohydrates. When food is not digested well, bacteria found in the large intestine attempts to finish the job, resulting in bloating, discomfort and gas.” — Soy is an endocrine System Disruptor… It’s a phyto estrogen (like flax)
The endocrine system is carefully balanced. You mess with one hormone, you disrupt them all. Here’s a pretty clear explanation…
www(dot)enviroblog(dot)org/2008/10/please-dont-disrupt-my-endocrines.html Excerpt. “Now that you know all about the endocrine system, what’s a disruptor? So glad you asked! A hormone disruptor is a substance from outside the body (yup, exogenous) that comes right in and acts like a hormone from inside the body (endogenous), thus disrupting a very delicate balance, preventing those endogenous hormones from doing what they do so well: bind with receptors.” Check out the animated illustration link at the site above (not compatible w/iPads) — Because we’re exposed to so many xeno (chemical) estrogens, that our bodies (& our Pete’s bodies) were never designed to handle, the balance is destroyed and every estrogenic compound is problematic.
Here’s some more reading on ESD (endocrine system disruptors) and a partial list. www(dot)niehs(dot)nih(dot)gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index(dot)cfm — Back to soy…
Reports have been put forward at several of the International Soy Symposium that show that soy causes reproductive system cancers, was found to cause, early menstrus & puberty, including gynomastica (male breasts), as young as 8 years of age, premature aging 5 years ahead of peers, cause senile dementia 5 years ahead of peer groups… That was several years ago.
Additional more recent sources www(dot)ncbi(dot)nlm(dot)nih(dot)gov/pmc/articles/PMC2706654/ dels-old(dot)nas(dot)edu/ilar_n/ilarjournal/45_4/pdfs/v4504vandenbergh(dot)pdf
— www(dot)niehs(dot)nih(dot)gov/research/supported/sep/2008/consumption/index.cfm Soy – lower sperm count in men
search.mercola(dot)com/search/pages/Results(dot)aspx?k=Soy Dr. Mercola’s extensive soy library
91% of all soy is GMO, this is a pretty comprehensive articles. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/09/18/soy-can-damage-your-health.aspx
The evidence is massive. But more research needs to be done. I have found, being TI, that all forms of soy, and soy by products, adversely impact my health. For the above reasons, I strongly discourage the use of phyto estrogens, particularly flax and soy.
Just an opinion, the vegan diet is very high in fiber since it is plant based and that helps with the “fullness” and it is hard to digest and slow to digest.
Hill’s WD dry food for weigh loss: it has fiber of 16% which is crazy high for a kibble and chock full of plant matter that gives the dog a full feeling. The second ingredient is cellulose, a bulk forming laxative!
Whole grain corn, powdered cellulose, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, chicken liver flavor, soybean mill run, soybean oil, dried beet pulp, soybean meal
hh, ok ty i was just gonna look it up.. i wonder why so much dog foods put yeast in them? is it a needed nutrient? but just bad for some dogs?
Selenium is a trace mineral. Selenium yeast is a safer alternative than sodium selenite. Selenium is not a fungus but a mineral but is grown from a fungus medium.
well to be honest here when i did a homemade vegan diet, she was not hungry after, but i made the mistake of feeding her only once a day, vet here in mo, said i should always feed 2 times per day, am n pm, i never did i walk her in the am early, then fed her…but when i wanted to get off the homemade diet n put her on nat bal vegan at first she hated it to the point where it would sit for hrs or a day n she would not touch it, so i had to add fresh chopped carrots to it, and little things then she ate it… well after coming to mo, and when the vet here said put her on that duck food, i was mixing it first w/ the vegan, she ate it all, but when the vegan ended and had only the duck, she would eat it so fast, n waited around by her bowl for hrs for more… she takes 2 thyroid pills per day, one in the am and one at night…
good post Shawna;), do you want me to post a list of what meds she is currently on? and the tyroid pills name, etc? she also is on a eye drop, one drop in each eye every other day, from what the vet told me , the eye drops n thyroid pills will be a lifetime drugs for her:(
wow now i really feel like a horrible doggy mom:(, what is selenium?
ahh, the paw licking, its odd it was not until the duck food that she started chewing her paws n licking them, its non stop.. and taking her face and rubbing it all over everything…
ok..this one is yeast free…except for the selenium at the bottom of the ingredient list.
sometimes disqus has a tick and posts get delayed.
thanks:), for me it will be a little harder i think as i get my income once a month only… but am looking for a pt work, or my selling online again something… I thank you for this hint, i have read before people who do it…
Having a dog who previously had a ton of ear infections, was/is a paw licker, the lesser of two evils is a food I choose to find the money to pay for rather than spend it on the vets and meds. Her choice but I will continue to advise people on what I feel is a good choice, not based on what they can afford. She could afford $30 a month and she’ll get the same advice from me. I don’t go by “per month” because I have no idea how much food her dog will go through. I don’t even know what I pay. I buy a premade raw that costs me $100 a month, and buy kibble on top of that. Debbie & I have different circumstances though. When we can’t do the raw, we’ll do all Brothers and since my dogs are doing alot better on that then any other kibble, we’ll find the money.
krissy, ok, im going to say it again, lol( im not being rude), what i can afford is little to nothing, but i chose to have audrey, im on a very tight budget, low income, yet i have over the yrs managed to get her to the vet, and feed her what i thought a pretty good food, the nat bal, turns out that had to many things in that are not good… i was paying for their biggest bag, arount 63.00 a month, it seems to keep going up:(, the duck one was even more, and it last 3-4 weeks, and i did that, i cant spend over 100 a mo on food for her, and thats even to much, but im spening 100-300 a mo on vets n meds:(, so under 100 a month for a food well worth it, would be a blessing:)
Debbie: simple. Our money for monthly or bimonthly bills goes into the bank. The other stuff we have envelopes for: dog food, vets, Kohls, Lowes (if we have something on those cards, we pay them in person), hair salon, birthdays, concerts (we do country so we have a little stashed in case a concert comes up) etc. Basically, anything that you pay cash for, stick something in every week. Much easier, for us, to stick a little in every week then come up with a bunch when we need it. It works for us
Debbie forget the issue that your vegan for awhile. That isn’t an issue since your willing to serve Audry what is best for her and that means meat. Your looking for a kibble that you can afford.
What can you afford each much to put into your budget? $10 a month, $20 a month more than that?
But we really can’t make suggestions until we know the dollar amount that you can afford each month to feed her.
krissy, maybe your not getting the posts? I posted twice what I can afford, etc.. I see them here so i know they did go through.. odd, plus i got the copies of my posts in my e mail..
Her dog isn’t starving because she has no food she is always hungry on the food she was eating (at least that is what she said in a much earlier post). The dog has a thyroid condition — increased hunger is a symptom. The pup is on meds but maybe the dosage is a bit off.
She feeds the dog vegetarian (and home cooked at least for part of the dogs life) so the dog is used to the carrots, broccoli etc.
Part of the reason she is having financial issues (from my understanding) is due to the meds and vet visits. She stated that she is giving about $200 worth of meds.
In addition to allergies and thyroid condition, the dog has a RAGING yeast infection. To the point that her vet has recommended surgically removing the ear canal..
Brothers was recommended because it is higher in protein and already has added enzymes and more importantly probiotics. And Brothers has a proven track record for helping with yeasty dogs.. I don’t think 4Health would be a good option unless she can add a good quality probiotic (which is not cheap) and extra animal protein (which she stated she doesn’t want in the house).
The food Sandy mentioned has several different forms of yeast in it which is (from all I’ve read) counter indicated in yeast cases. Other foods besides Brothers have been recommended too. Marie recommended one with a lower price point.
Maybe you should read back from the beginging before you get all bent out of shape at the people who have been here with her since the beginning trying to help while factoring in ALL the medical conditions?
PS — her vet also suggested it was “grains” that was contributing to the yeasty ears so she is looking for a grain free food… She opted for Natural Balance Duck with legumes but the dog had a negative reaction. Others have already suggested other protein sources within the NB line. So, with all this in mind, what would you suggest?
Yes dogs with allergies don’t do well on cheaper foods, but the issue is money on what can be afforded and so far she hasn’t said. But today the dog is getting veggies and rice which speaks volumes.
But the bigger issue is what to feed the dog today, tomorrow and until she gets her next check. Which is when she hasn’t said.
It sounds like it’s a matter of choosing the worst of two evils. She hasn’t said what she can or can’t afford but given what she is feeding now says a lot. She was feeding natural balance going by the online petco price it’s $16 for a 5 lb bag, but is that what she can truly afford each month or did that make a hardship for her to buy it. Since she is out of food right now and can’t afford anything cheaper.
Does she buy the more expensive food and ditch the vet and meds and hope that helps or does she opt for a cheaper food and continue with the vet and meds? Between a rock and a hard place. But a decision that Debbie needs to make.
4health is still a 4 star food but it’s at least affordable even in the smaller 5 lb bag. But it may not solve the allergies but at least the dog would get a quality food and won’t be hungry. TOTW may also be an option it’s grain free and a bit cheaper than the other grain free options out there. Even the medium size bag is affordable if she can afford the $28 a 15 lb bag. Or the smaller bag is $12 for 5 lbs. It may not solve the allergies but she won’t be hungry either. Like I said for some people it’s a matter of choosing the worst of two evils. If the more expensive food is not an option since the brothers is $29 for a 5 lb bag. $53 might be a bit much for the larger bag. She hasn’t said what she can afford so we don’t know but given what she is feeding now…
Sandy, first off, what I really find neat here is how everyone comes together;), yes yesterday, day before? I was a little upset re the posts that someone else made, re me not giving audrey a vegan diet etc… im not some lunatic vegan who only wants to feed my dog vegan cause i am, lol I honestly want what is best for her… and i have done what i can.. and anyhow, you all have helped me here in ways you cant know:), i re read the posts, write things down, its a huge help… hopefully maybe i can help someone else someday.. ok, audrey is a tad over 39 pounds, yes I know over weight:), it is from 2 things, all the steroids over the past 4 yrs, and a thyroid problem that i never knew about till july…and there is one food pantry here, and i have asked in the past re dog food, and they looked at me like i was nuts….for that matter the few times i went there, the food was so outdated that in the rice n cereals there were bugs… when I told them, they seemed not to care, kinda like beggars cant be choosy…your ham n sweet pot sounds fine, but i dont eat ham as im vegan, plus the sweet potatoes i was told are bad for her? as they turn into sugar… I do feel the ones who said a better food would make less vet bills are right, to be honest I thought she was on a good food… i knew there were better but did not have the money, one i looked at 2 or so mo ago, called ziiwii? but it was costly:(
I don’t use it but from reading on other posts, it is a less costly brand. I just looked up Natural Balance Vegan 28lb/50.99/1.82 per lb. For a slightly lower price you can get Nutrisource GF Lamb 30 lb/49.99/1.67 per lb and free shipping. This is what I am currently using for some of my dogs. I foster. http://www.petflow.com/explorer?brands%5B%5D=Nutri+Source&filter=Go&limit=10 Do you have a pet pantry near your area? The food bank in my area also has donated pet food. http://www.thepetfoodpantry.org/ I haven’t read all the posts so don’t know what kind or size of dog you have, but if I didn’t have any dog food I would make the dog a baked yam and a can of sardines and a scrambled egg.
Debbie what can you afford for dog food per month? Can you afford $10 a month, $20 a month or $30 a month or more? How much in terms of numbers can you afford?
I know money is an issue today, but can you put dog food into your monthly budget and keep it there. What is that dollar amount?
Until you say how much you can afford were going around in circles going nowhere.
But you also need a solution to feed Audry today which may not be what you want to feed her but she will survive on it.
My childhood dog growing up also didn’t eat dog kibble. She was a mutt of who knows what breed, maybe rat terrier maybe part dingo we really don’t know! We got her almost from birth as the mother died and my mum took care of her like a newborn baby. I lived overseas as an expat in a 3rd world country and my mom made my dogs food. She got beef or chicken mixed with rice and veggies plus my mum would also put a vitamin pill in it and cooked it in a pressure cooker. Did she survive on that mix, yes she did. She lived to be 16 because we did bring her back to the states. But did she thrive, that is the bigger question, but otherwise she appeared to be healthy. But we suspect she was having small seizures in the last year or two but was that related to the dog food or just getting old? She did pass away in her sleep so my mum wasn’t forced to take her to the vet to put her to sleep which she was going to do before winter set in. I’m thankful she didn’t have to make that choice.
ahh, you know I read that somewhere, can you e mail me , and tell me more re the envelope system? that would really be something that would help me alot
Krissy, I dont recall seeing a post from you where you posted prices, so many posts, plus my reg e mails all gets confusing, I hope I did not delete it by mistake, if so, I will look here and try to find it, or e mail to me : lookatallthebooks com
what I can reg. basis, is nothing.. but as I have said she is my dog and I am going to do the very best that I can.. I guess factually speaking I cant go over 40-70 a month… but I will fit it in, like the high vet bills, it makes me not pay my light bill, then I have a higher bill the following month, but im not gonna let her go without care… my daughter is going to try to help, she is in pa. and well… att his point I feel she needs to come home, but thats her choice.. as right now it would be a huge help to me n audrey, but at least if she can help a little.. she is not working… looking for work, was , is? doing online work, so I really cant depend on her, I have before and got let down so pretty much its all up to me.. I thank you for your concern
oh and I forgot to say this. You ask what part of your income. We aren’t rich but we have an envelope system. Every week, we toss a little money into about a dozen envelopes: two of them are dog food and vets. Easier, for us, to put $5 a week (from me since I only earn a little babysitting my granddaughter) or $10 a week (from my husband) into envelopes and have some cash on hand instead of having to come up with cash when you need it.
I don’t know what Debbie’s price point is; she hasn’t said. I only know, from experience, that having a dog with certain issues can result in constant vet visits. If you don’t stop the issues, the visits continue, as do the drugs they give you. IMO, if she can somehow find the funds, whether she has to give up something or roll coins, which I’ve had to do, to get a food that has helped alot of dogs on this very forum, she won’t have the vet visits to pay. I cannot recall if anyone has recommended Zymox for the ear issues; I keep a bottle on hand, just in case. I personally would rather buy a more expensive food, after reading reviews of it here of dogs with the same issues, then buy something cheaper, have it not work and waste the money. This is up for Debbie to make up her mind. If she can’t do the Brothers, I can’t offer any other food suggestions. Feeding chicken and rice isn’t the answer, those are two high allergen ingredients.
sorry, I guess I forgot you said you had cockers:(ohh, my, i honestly wish there were not so many foods to choose from you know? this is how it gets confusing.. years ago, alot was different, im 59 yrs old, so im talking when i was a kid, my mom raised and had poodles, maltese, yorkies, etc, I remember her cooking chicken for them, steaming it, with rice, eggs, and stuff.. even fresh veggies on top, i dont recall ever seeing her buy dog food, and she made sirloin ground beef for them, mixed with rice.. they were all healthy, and lived long, etc.. all is so different now:(
Thats up to the owner to figure out what she can afford. She could tell me she can pay $30 for a 30 pound bag of food and she’s going to get the same recommendations. By the way, “she” could be anyone reading this, who’s dogs may have the same issues, not just Debbie. Dogs with issues sometimes don’t do well on a “cheaper” food; it’s up to the owners to decide if they want to try it or not.
I’ve not used brothers myself, but it may or may not work. Many times it’s trial and error. But the bigger question is can you afford it? I posted prices in my last post to give you an idea of that is a realistic option or not. That has been a skirted issue. What exactly can you afford to pay for dog food? Not just now but when your next check comes and can you continue to afford that and not just a one time deal.
krissy, well ur right in one way, but also she has so many health issues i dont want to make her worse, or not get her better…i know of people with big $$ yet they actually get the walmart brand for their dogs:(, knowing it is no good… on the other hand, as poor as i am i have always tryed my best to do good for audrey… right now im going through a loss as my daughter stayed in pa…, and audrey is also greiving for her, and on top of that since i got here in april/may all my money seems on a monthly basis to go on vets bills n meds:( i thought when i took her off the vegan food n changed to the duck it would make some kind of a even little difference, for the better, yet she got worse then longer she was on it, and many many bowel movements, and stayed hungry… I will never no matter what regret having her, im gonna keep at this somehow, and try my best for audrey
Is she really hungry or acting hungry because some dogs would eat until they are sick. Many dogs eat if offered food even when not hungry. Does she act that way because she knows you will give in and feed her?
ohh, so do u think brothers would not be good for audrey, or u just mean price wise?
Interesting my posts don’t show up Shawna. I have no idea what foods are for dogs with allergies but that there are some that are out there but lower in cost just from reading a few selective posts. But yet since she hasn’t said what her dog food budget it and is skirting the issue that is a problem. Yet brothers keeps coming up which is one of the higher cost foods and the main posters here have the funds to pay for the best or feed raw. From what I have read and the opinion that I form from those posts.
As for a suggested food…. Well what about 4health that I suggested in my last post that was removed? Even if it’s not going to help the allergies it’s a 4 star food without a high price tag. She may need to continue with the meds/vet visits and feed something she can afford that won’t help the allergies. Not a solution to the problem but the dog won’t be starving either which appears to be an issue right now! If that is out of her price range, just going by the walmart website what about ol’ roy healthy mix kibble it’s 3.98 for a 3.5 lb bag. That’s the cheapest. Even kibbles n bits is a bit more per pound than 4Health. The ol’ roy is just a tad cheaper than the 5.99 bag of 4health not much but a tad. Purina One is $6.48 for a 4 lb bag. Iams is $6.67 for a 4 lb bag. But those few cents may make a difference to her budget. Put yourself in her shoes for awhile and think from that perspective. The main priority now is FOOD NOW, not tomorrow or next week.
She is feeding the dog veggies and rice today because she doesn’t have money for cheap dog food why would suggesting brothers be of help? We have to live within our means sometimes. My post is trying to get the needed numbers to suggest a food for her dog something she can afford. Trying to find out what she can afford when her next check comes and when that is coming. All are important answers that need to be answered to try to solve the problem as a group. But no one is asking those important questions and without those answers were just going around in a circle without any solid answers. She may have to continue feeding a food she can afford and continue with the vet and meds because it’s what she can afford.
Would it be better to drop the vet visits and meds and opt for a very expensive food and it may or may not help. What about the dog in the mean time between and also the dog may have issues switching cold turkey. Some dogs don’t do well with a cold turkey switch and others are not bothered by it. It may need to slowly graduate to the better food which leads to the question can the owner afford both foods and with or without the cost of the vet visits and meds from the vet.
I see it as being a bit of the battle of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Making a tough decision. We all love our pets but if we can’t afford the best what is the best option that is the worst of two evils?
Anyone willing to donate some food to her via priority flat rate mail to save on postage for something that may be heavy? Flat rate bubble mailer is only $5.10 and you can get quite a bit into it. Be it brothers allergy or another type of brothers or a non-brothers food something anything that will feed her dog given what she has to feed her dog today is what it will also get tomorrow and who knows how long until her next check comes. Which will be when? Because no one has asked? I asked and my post was removed. Is she close to a PETCO and can see about getting some of the food that is donated there? How about other organizations that could be called to see about getting some free dog food until her next check which is when? Who knows is it the 15th or the end of the month? Big questions that need answering.
Has anyone here been in her shoes? Without money and having kids to feed be them two or four legged kids. Or even having food for yourself!
Interesting that my following comment was flagged/removed for review when I am trying to help the lady with a solution the problem that works for HER and not for YOU. I am not attacking or flaming anyone, just trying to help with solid answers. So I shall repost.
Debbie, money is clearly a problem. What would help is if you posted actual numbers. Saying you can’t afford anything is not an answer. Do you have any dollars in the bank account now that could be spent on dog food NOW without putting yourself at risk? When is your next check due so you can buy dog food? How much of that check can you budget out to spend on dog food? Actual numbers are needed. Do you have a budget? If not it would really help for you to sit down and create one so you spend your money on what you need not what you want. We need to know these numbers so food can be suggested that fits in your budget. But don’t put yourself in a pickle so you can’t afford the other things that YOU NEED as well. But it would end the run around to know these numbers to give you suggestions that are realistic for you.
Dogs do survive on lower quality food even if that is what you have to feed for the time being until you can afford something better.
Eve’s suggested checking out petco and seeing about getting some of the food donated that they have. Chances are it’s going to be a lower quality food but it’s still dog food. IMHO a one star food would be a better option than the veggies & rice she had today. The lower quality food would have the added vitamins and minerals and protein even if it’s mostly plant based. What actual meds are you giving your dog now? Are they costly meds? Is there anything that you can do at home to help her without the meds other than food change? (home remedies) Looking at the brothers website can you afford $29 a month for a 5 lb bag of brothers allergy formula dog food? Do you get a monthly check or by-monthly check? The other question is will that 5 lb bag last a whole month? If it won’t last for the month and you get paid bi-monthly can you afford that every two weeks. If not can you afford the $53 for the 13 lb size bag? That should last you a month or longer If it lasts longer than a month continue to pick up a bag each month then cutting back when you figure out how often you need to order so you don’t run out. If either of these two are not affordable to you then what exactly can you afford? Actual numbers would help to try to give you a solution to the problem that you can afford.
What part of your income can you set aside to pay for dog food right now with your next check? Continue to budget the cost of vet bills and meds into your budget because you will continue to need those until a food change food helps if it helps. But if you can’t afford the better food that will reduce the vet bills you may have to continue with the vet bills and meds and feed her a food that you can afford even if it’s not the best. Or dare I suggest consider giving her up for adoption as a special needs dog because of her allergies if you feel you can’t afford to give her the care she requires. You need to do what’s in the best interest of the dog.
Even if it doesn’t help with her allergies do you have a TSC close by to shop at? Their 4health line is affordable and is actually a quality food. (4 star) Even if you have to continue with the vet bills and meds it’s at least quality food you can afford. I don’t know the cost of 1 star foods in stores like Walmart but a 5 lb bag of the 4Health is either $5.99 or $6.99 depending on the variety while a 18 lb bag is $17.99 or $19.99 depending on the variety. Both are very affordable and shouldn’t be much more than the lower quality foods IF you can get to a TSC store. It’s their own brand so it can only be bought there. But I would suggest staying away from the lamb because it’s only three stars. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-dry/
http://www.tractorsupply.com/ to find the closest TSC to you just click the button at the top to find a store near you when you enter your zip code.
ty, is that what u use? it seems the more i research her n her conditions and food, the more confusing it is getting:( I want the brothers, and i can get I think i have:) help to get it now, and then it would be a monthly fee for me to keep getting it, but it looks like it wont be anymore, which is odd then what i paid for the big bag of natural balance vegan, or their duck, then she was hungry an hr later, thats also strange, no?
Victor Grain Free Yukon Salmon has a lower price point.
For the medical issues that her dog has, what foods would you recommend Krissy? I’m at a loss if she can’t afford some of the higher priced ones.. That’s why I didn’t recommend any brand (although I was asked if I feed Brothers — didn’t recommend it though).
I think it’s cruel to suggest foods that she clearly can’t afford.
I have two cockers as I mentioned previously. Neither have ear infections and never had. I feed a variety of food, but keep the ears clean, dry and the inside flap shaved to help air circulation. They always eat Acana, but right now they are eating Hi Tek Lamb(grain free) mixed in with it-Hi Tek has a low price point, rated very well, and keep your receipts and upcs-buy 10 get one free, which may help your bottom line.
How would you rate the Proformance brand of dog and cat food?
Would you please send me a quick email at [email protected]. Thanks!
omg, no offense taken at all, I thank you for all this info, as at the moment, I have no food for her, today I steamed, broccolli, spinache, and carrots, n green beans, was gonna make some brown rice to, but was un sure re the grain:( and she is starving:( I will look into all you have said.. I thank you so much
Aloha, Debbie, I am a lurker here, and occasional poster. Haven’t been on recently because of having to take care of a kitten my dog (whose prey drive is apparently overwhelmingly greater than her mothering instinct) attacked. Kitty is on his way to a forever home, now. I hope you don’t take offense, but from skimming this thread I gather that you are in MO and at the moment, anyway, in need of dog food for Audrey at little or no cost, but are also on the lookout for something better for her in the future. It would help posters if you could give an idea of what you can afford, too. Here is a list of general price comparisons for dog foods: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmNw5KB82-n_dGtyOEpVVXhPQ2tfeU1FUGdEdjVnTkE&hl=en#gid=0 In the meantime, though, as a stopgap, did you know that recently some people food banks also carry pet food? PETCO has a list of some places they help out across the nation. If you scroll down, you can click on the state to see specific locations if there is one near you, which is not to say that a food bank not listed won’t have food, just that this is where PETCO is helping out: http://www.petco.com/Petco_Page_PC_foundationfoodbank.aspx This site lists by state, for veterinary assistance: http://pawpassion.org/having-trouble-affording-your-pet/ There is also a pet food pantry in your state: http://bistatepetfoodpantry.org/ If you really need something right now today, you can probably go into a pet food store (not a supermarket/big chain) and ask for samples for your allergic cocker to try out because “she is a little picky” and “because of her allergies and sensitivities, you aren’t sure what will work best and want to try some different ones out, blah, blah, blah,” and get some freebies.
I hope this helps and that I haven’t offended. But I figure that even if you find a way to afford it and order the Brothers it will be a little bit of time before it gets to you and you will need food until then. Maybe you can find something with as few things in it that you know bother her alot and if it is not a great food, top it with something good, like meat or fish.
I can only speak for myself but I recommend what I think will work. If it’s costly then it’s up to the dog owner to figure out if it’s worth it to find the money to try a food that may cut down on the vet appointments or not.
I can only tell you that if you read the Brothers threads here on DFA, you will find that it seems to work for alot of people. Unless you have allergy testing done, you don’t know what the issue is. I have kept flax from Boone but he’s having no issues on it with Brothers so I guess it’s not his issue after all!
no, what im saying is i have had all of the same illnesses before i became vegan…. way before, when i ate meat, as a kid, all the things i have wrong now, i had then, only much worse then, my headaches are not half as bad, asthma is much better, and seizures are hardly at all…i was mentioning the blood work, as the dr thought he would find me lacking in areas, from being vegan, he did not.. but this has nothing to do w/ audrey, i take her walking each day, as I feel a dog needs to be walked, not just let out to use the bathroom, up till now i thought i was feeding her good… vegan or not, she goes to the vet, etc etc, gets loved, is though deeply greiving over my daughter not being here, i know that:(
ty krissy, what do u feed yours? yes I wish I had the funds now to get the very best for her, next month i may.. so if a good food has samples? enough to last for 3 weeks or so? this poor dog does not deserve all this.. wish i would have tryed to go to a holistic vet maybe a long time ago, I honestly thought i was doing good.. but i felt like a rat race, she gets sick, i pay the vet, i get meds, the meds stop, 1-3 weeks sometimes longer, sick again, back to the vet, and on and on, it has not helped her:(
Believe it or not, we don’t simply recommend foods because they are high priced. Why would we, it’s not like we make commission of the sales of any food? We recommend foods based on what’s best for the dog.
Now if debbie says the foods that have been recommended are out of her price range, then we’ll go from there. But until then why would we recommend anything other than what is best for the dog?
Yes, she has mentioned being in a financial situation, but I have yet to hear her say “I can’t afford X amount of money”.
ohh, no i guess i should have worded it all different, the same health issues i have now, i had while eating meat, had them all my life, they were actually as i said, worse then, my dad has asthma, my mom had seizures, and my sister also does… and we all get miagranes.. but all of that was same, if not worse when i ate meat, etc… these things did not come after i became veg, or vegan, sorry if i worded it all wrong:(
Not to play “queen of the Sickies” with you, but I’ve been way worse than that. I’m recovering, praise God! But asthma, check. Allergies, check. Strokes, check. Seizures, check. Porphyria, check. heart attacks, check. Brain damage, check. Paralysis of the diaphragm with suffocation, check… I could go on. My conditions sheet is 3 pages, with 3 columns, each. I was supposed to die 8 years ago. I’ve been doing this since 1996. I see a specialist… He didn’t expect me to survive. He accredits it to the fact that I’m the stubbornness person he’s ever met. GFETE
Just do it.
Trust me, it’ll save your life. It has mine.
ahh, ok I see.. re the yeast issues, I have been told it is what my audrey has, but I read that it causes a bad smell, right? she has no smell on her.. odd? and the brothers food, i was suprised the allergy one i think had chicken, peas, etc.. and flax, alot that i was told that was not good to give her:( now im really confused
How about helping Debbie find a good food for her dog that is LOW COST and not suggest HIGH COST foods (such as brothers) as it appears that money is an issue for the dog food. Suggesting a high cost food that is out of her budget isn’t a solution IMHO. What about options that are she can afford. Best bang for the buck so to speak even if it’s not a 4 or 5 star food. What are some options that will work for her dog?
Good Luck Debbie!
no cockers but the dog on the left in my picture over there <~~~~has long ears & is prone to yeast ear infections. He is also sometimes itchy and is a big paw licker. The owner of Brothers thinks he may have a yeast issue in his system
So neither you nor Audrey are truly “healthy” then — despite what your blood work reads.
ok, im gonna go check out their food now.. as something has to be done, do you have cockers? anyone here has cockers?
ah, its ok my head is spinning, lol this is as bad as trying to figure out what vegan diets, lol so many dog foods out there you know? i dont think i could do the raw meat one:( unless someone said they knew for a fact n i seen proof, lol that it would help audrey.. i just cant touch it:(
wow, lol I had a home that size many yrs ago.. miss it:), well I have seizures, chronic miagranes, and a bad back… but I will try to do this;(, ohh plus all my allergies, asthma etc.. which all have been worse since I moved from pa to missouri:( plus I am going through depression now, re a family issue;(
I live alone with audrey, and now this financial deal that came up, and running out of all dog food, bad timing:(all i can do is best i can.. I thank you, so what about soy milk?
rofl! Raw is raw, you don’t cook raw. That’s home cooking. This looks like raw meat. Not to confuse you more but I have also fed dehydrated!
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