Dr. Karen Becker: How to Choose a Good Dog Food

http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/dogs/dry_food/pacific_stream_canine_formula/

My dog has had the kind of kidney stone that it is now recomended that she eat only SO food. Is there anything else I can do for her. The food is very expense. Thanks

Certainly not in the loose and selective sense that many people here use the term.

Thank goodness.

I’ve an entire freezer of beef
and really want to also get some
dehydrated in there since my kidd
did so well on that before (Addiction)

Although, I’ll move to a better dehydrated
food and mix with chunks of beef on the
other end of the day.

Nothing beats results and his stools
are nothing like they used to be
even though I was supplementing
with all the stuff I found on Raw.

Think I found a happy medium though
based on your reply.

Thanks for that last note Shawna.

I really need to STOP now as I’ve spent
days on research and am literally Dog-tired
and brain dead.

I never did this much research on what’s on
MY plate…

Thumbs-up!

Y’all need to write an encyclopedia…great stuff!

Tsk, tsk, tsk Shawna.

Never apologize when you bombard
with THAT much vital info.

One couldn’t pay enough for those golden
nuggets of knowledge.

Let me go digest it all and see if I can
turn myself into a dog-chef.

And yes, all the mom’s and dad’s here
are super…guess you’d have to be owning,
putting up with, and succeeding with 4-legged
children.

Hi Bill   Aren’t these guys on this blog GREAT .. 

I have small dogs ranging in weight from 5 to 14 pounds — 8 dogs total.  Feeding a small breed dog is a bit different than feeding a larger dog.  HDM can get away with feeding a whole quail.  Mine could eat it but it would be breakfast and dinner for several days.

Pure uncontaminated bone meal is a better source of calcium then eggshells.  Eggshells can be used for sure but they don’t have any phosphorus and some nutritionists feel that our pups won’t be getting species appropriate amounts of phosphorus on eggshells alone.  I use a combination of shells and bones.

Eggshells should be supplemented at about 1/2 teaspoon per pound of meat (food) used — which is about 900 to 1200 mg of calcium.  The amounts of calcium in different brands of bone meal are different and you have to factor in the phosphorus.  Amounts to supplement vary then by product.  Sandy linked to dogaware.com..  GREAT place to get proper amounts to supplement no matter what you use.. 

Feed Billy Junior the amount based on percentage but watch his body condition closely and adjust the amount fed from there.  I have three five pounds dogs and they each eat different amounts — Gizmo my Pom gets .94 ounces (less than an ounce) while my other Pom Peanut gets 1.6 ounces and my Chihuahua Cloee gets 2 ounces per meal..  Any less or more for each will cause weight gain or loss.  I weigh their food out on a tea scale every meal.  I do add a teaspoon of high quality, higher protein canned food to their meals as well (for variety).

When I feed raw meaty bones I have to make sure I am feeding parts that have significant amounts of meat.  Younger birds will have more meat and less bone as an example.  Or the little drummetts chicken legs are small enough that I can feed those and some meat if necessary and feed a bit less their second meal of the day.  Your furkid is a bit bigger than most of mine so you have more wiggle room on what can be fed.

Just make SURE to use a WIDE VARIETY of meats — red and white and dark etc.  This is the only way to get varying amounts and types of amino acids, fatty acids etc..  Red meat has more saturated fat while dark meat chicken has more omega 6 fats as an example.  Turkey has more amounts of tryptophan, heart is higher in taurine, brain has good omega 3 DHA and other healthy fats etc.  Variety is the key to a healthy diet.

I’ll make up a batch of baby food and will save the jars and will ask others for jars.  I’ll buy a wide variety of baby foods (both in jar and pouch but always organic and grain free).  I’ll then mix 5 or 6 different ones and store them in the amounts appropriate for 1 pound of food.  I cheat a bit — one pound of meat is 16 ounces and 20% of 16 ounces is 3.2 ounces so I’ll portion the mixed baby foods by 3.2 ounces.  Then I’ll freeze all the jars.  When I need to make a pound of food I’ll defrost one jar of the mixed baby food.

When fruits and veggies are fresh I’ll buy fresh and steam the ones that need to be cooked then will puree or grind all the veggies/fruits.  These can be frozen in the same baby food jars, can be added to baby food to change the texture etc.  You can also use frozen veggies/fruits.

I do the same thing with organs.  I’ll buy liver, heart, brains (when available), kidneys etc.  I’ll portion out 5% liver or .8 ounces and .8 ounces of a variety of other organs and freeze.  When I’m ready to mix the food I’ll thaw and grind a bit to mix them before mixing in with the meat, veggies and calcium source.  I also add a whole food vitamin (just to be safe) and a supplement mix I make up using super foods and herbs (spirulina, burdock root, coconut flakes etc).  My dogs are mainly rescue and their health was questionable when coming to me..  I like the extra comfort of the supplements/vitamins.  And like Sandy, I add enzymes and probiotics or probiotic foods like home made fermented veggies or raw green tripe.

Sorry for the length of this ..

Here’s one site that talks about supplements:

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html#cooked

Excellent question.

I hadn’t thought about that.

I’ll have to go ask the butcher.

I believe they probably grind it
all together.

Goodness, definitely don’t want to
risk that.  I didn’t know. Thanks
for the heads-up!

So, perhaps it would be better to
give Billy J the chunks of beef with all
the other stuff:
1. Chunks of either ‘glop’ or baby food
2. Organ meats
3. calcium (via either crushed eggshells/bone meal)

Does that look right?

And I’d read something about grinding eggshells as a
better bio-digestible form of calcium.

What’s your take on that?

Have you come across a site or know
of the quantity to give per meal/day, per
weight or whatever?

Thanks

Do you currently feed Jr a fatty diet? Do you know if the ground chicken from the butcher will have alot of skin?  A sudden increase in fat content can sometimes lead to pancreatitis. Something else to think about with schnauzer breeds!  Have you thought about a transition period in regards to changing from his normal fat content to a higher fat content food?

 HDM,

That was glorious information.

I’m so bowled-over by your consideration
and detailed help on this.

Fantastic.

THAT’S what I miss about not being back
home.  The utter dedication and focus of
movements and beliefs.

Thanks so much.

Billy Junior thanks you too.

We’re either going to order the baby food
online–those brands aren’t available on the
Singapore shelves–or scour similar organics
here.

BTW, do you have small dogs?

how many jars–or portions thereof–do you
feed yours, per meal?

I’m still trying to work out the percentages.
for Billy Junior.

As you saw he’s very active and is a mini
Schnauzer weighing about 14-15 lbs.

trying to get the mix of meat, mix and bones
right.

Oh, and the info about the calcium and bone
within the ground chicken…that was precious!

Thanks x 2

Yee-Hah!

Hi Bill –

I know I’m not Shawna but these are the baby food substitutes I like to use in my dogs’ raw diet:

-Peter Rabbit Organics – http://www.peterrabbitorganics.com/ (Carrot/Squash/Apple, Pea/Spinach/Apple, Pumpkin/Carrot/Apple, Pear/Pea)

-Plum Organics – http://www.plumorganics.com/ (Second Blend: Apple/Carrot, Blueberry/Pear/Purple Carrot, Broccoli/Apple, Spinach/Peas/Pear, Pumpkin/Banana)

There are other brands out there too, these are just two of my favorites as they’re organic and I can get them at my grocery store. Just make sure you read the ingredients and get one with just fruits and veggies (no grains) and make sure there’s no onion, raisins or grapes in it.

If you’re feeding a ground mix with bone do not add bonemeal or any other calcium supplement. You’ll throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio. A whole ground chicken has the appropriate calcium to phosphorus ratio. Ground is tidier but I’d recommend feeding RMBs at least a few days a week for dental health.

 Joanie hang in there,I’m positive Dr Mike will take care  of this poster problem.We on DFA have been through this before and Dr Mike will take care of it.Please keep coming back and you will get the answers to your questions.

Do you use the 100% pure oil only for skin or do you give it as a food supplement too?  Or should one buy separate products?

 Hiya Shawna,  you’re a wealth of info.  Or have I just been on another planet for 3-years.

Anyway:

1.  Tell me more about the baby food substitute (details, details).  Can it replace the ‘glop’ in varying BARF diet books?  It seems easy and I too am pressed for time but, unfortunately, am stationed in Asia and they don’t have a penny on the resources back home?

2.  After BJ got choco-pudding-pooh from silly me feeding him chunks of pure beef and barely anything else I’ve reversed field and wrote to someone whom said BJ’s activity level probably warranted more calories.  I did not want to give him veggies as I’d read they are not necessary but, I’m thinking otherwise if for only the fiber for binding.  Or can I just stick to the proper amounts of bone, salmon oil, vitamin e, and be safe?

3.  Instead of throwing him a whole chicken can i spoon out ground chicken (with the bone, skin, organ meats all-in) they prepare at a butchers down the road here whom pack it and freeze it for neighborhood doggies? Ground is so much easier/tidier, then I can add the other stuff (bone meal/seaweed calcium) with his meals and be set-to-go?

I’d be overjoyed to be able to find a mixture I can combine or food process (all-in), bag it and stick in the freezer about 2-3 month’s worth.

4.  BTW, which vitamins/bone meal can I add to the food inside the bag that’s to be frozen and which supplements can I NOT add into the freezer bags.

Once again, just thinking of simplicity.

Thanks!

I joined this post for information on changing how I feed my Labrador Retrievers in my Kennels.  It is hard to keep track, and absorb the information I need, when one person seems to dominate the postings.  I am the Owner/Breeder of Labrador Retrievers, and what to feed them the best I can.  If someone can help me with a solution, please email me;  jksweatt@aol.com

Sort of sounds like all the reviews I read about coconut oil, useful for many things! I didn’t even know they made emu stuff for humans. On a side note, when we go to ours sons home, we pass by a house that has two Emu in the backyard

I saved that link to read later….my Boone was a big paw licker, til he started on the Brothers. He’s back to it a bit now, I think maybe from the heat being on all the time. Maybe the Emu oil would be a help. Thanks, Dave!

Read for a while tonight, went for a ultra long walk, then realized I left the pc on… found a neat site about dog foods etc, and found this on it, simple but meaningful…:

  THE ROTATION DIET

Many people choose not to feed the same food day in day out for the
life of the pet.  There are a few reasons why but mainly it’s to help
keep a dog interested at meal time and because many people feel what one
kibble is deficient in the other can make up for it, and vice versa. 
It’s a good idea to find a few different kibbles a dog can tolerate and
thrive on.  You never know when an allergy might pop up so it’s good to
have differing formulas at your disposal.  Some people who incorporate a
rotation diet change the food at each meal time.  Some do every week. 
Some do every other week.  Some change once a month.  Some change
whenever a bag runs out.  If you’re interested in rotating kibble please
know there is no set way to do it.  It’s up to you and your dog.  Sure
can be fun though!
 

Many people choose not to feed the same food day in day out for the
life of the pet.  There are a few reasons why but mainly it’s to help
keep a dog interested at meal time and because many people feel what one
kibble is deficient in the other can make up for it, and vice versa. 
It’s a good idea to find a few different kibbles a dog can tolerate and
thrive on.  You never know when an allergy might pop up so it’s good to
have differing formulas at your disposal.  Some people who incorporate a
rotation diet change the food at each meal time.  Some do every week. 
Some do every other week.  Some change once a month.  Some change
whenever a bag runs out.  If you’re interested in rotating kibble please
know there is no set way to do it.  It’s up to you and your dog.  Sure
can be fun though!

 thank you, right now im laying  off all treats, but for future was curious as to what you gave,  I used to make hers, homemade.. different ones, have not done that in ages.. again thanks

Sorry for the duplicate.  I’m trying to reply to nherrera5.

You can rotate kibbles, canned foods, even other forms of foods like raw, freeze dried and homemade. Even adding a lighlty scrambled egg or can or sardines on top of the kibble. My dogs main meals are kibble and raw. I use freeze dried as treats, canned foods as kibble toppers, sometimes reconstituted dehydrated food as a kibble topper and sometimes they just get a raw chicken drumstick

 Not quite sure what you mean here? I am asking because so many people have said I should put the egg, or sardines, etc.. on top of her kibbles…  or the canned, and other things…  I am just making sure I have it right, thats all.

debbie – please keep the KISS principle in mind here.  Seems to me your focus might be better spent on ensuring you ALWAYS have Brothers on hand – sustainably, by your own means – rather than trying to figure out what ELSE to feed/give her on a daily basis.  As I understand it, Brothers was carefully designed to work on Audrey’s issues ON ITS OWN. Let it. Stop futzing around with this so much. Once you have the means, and perhaps the stress of what Audrey’s going through has subsided somewhat, you’ll be in a better position to make other decisions about what Audrey consumes, but it honestly just does not sound like you are there at all at the moment.

 ok, so what your saying is one day maybe add some egg to the top of the brothers, maybe next day sardines, one day yogurt, like different things everyday? or every other day?

 I did that when i was making her homemade vegan food, but when i put her on the nat bal dry kibble it was only that.. but to be honest she was not wanting it, she loves the brothers…i used to have to add carrots, or yogurt something just to get her to eat the nat bal duck, even the nat bal vegan, same she never liked it.. the brothers, ohh my she loves it.. im just scared all this other stuff will make her sick, but guess not, right? and in time  even change up on the brothers, get the allergy, and give one day that, one day the fish, etc? so dont add the flax oil, betsy posted it was not good, and the vet told me to get it, lol…
  I noticed a little while ago, she is laying here sleeping, on my feet:), that her eyes are now runny… im hoping all this is the bad coming out you know? not another infection coming in, see she stopped all the meds and usually when she does, not long after the infection comes back:(

yeah sure you have to add anything. it’s mostly for variety right now. I love pizza but would get tired of eating it if that was all had 24/7even with the various combination of toppings.

thank you, again:), ok someone else mentioned wetting the food, and I think I asked re it, cause see I read some where, once not to do that.. as it ruins the food? crazy stuff you read you know? ok I have broth, lol but veg broth, so thats not good for her i take it right? ok, i only bought sardines tonight, but i bought a half dozen of eggs, should have got more:(and quite a few cans in the little tin of the sardines.. i can get the mackarel.. cant  get the canned food now…will this be ok for now?

 thank you, oh good as i was waiting longer…. I try so hard with her, i dont know how these ear infections ever started, a lady i know actually gives her cocker walmart food, yuck.. and her dog never had bad ears:( i dont get it… i guess my bad luck has worn off on poor audrey…

yes it coukd be the ear opening up. that growth could very well be something like a pimple. a little inverted puss pocket. As the Candida starts to die off or starve itself out, the infections will always get a lot worse. the ear infections (symptoms) may have been completely gone or even for lack of better words dormant until they start to die off. Then they will seem to come back with a vengence until they finally do die off. That may be whatt is going on now. that also explains being tired and extra hungry as of lately.
30 to 45 minutes should be enough time for the ears to dry out enough to not interfear with the ear drops.

 dave, when the food comes monday, should I keep adding the sardines n egg to the brothers? or just stick to the brothers plain? what do you think?

 after i flush, how long do you think i need to wait before putting in the cream?I seen betsy posted before asking if maybe the odor is coming from the ears starting to open up, so thats a good thing then, right?

don’t worry about putting your finger in the ear and hitting the ear drum. The ear canal is actually in the shape of the letter “J” so when you put your finger in there and hit bottom you are nowhere near the eardrum.

Think about this. there is a lot of oil in the ear. oil is lighter than water and will float to the top. With that in mind do you think flushing is going to push all the bad stuf further down into the ear? just use some common sense when you read some of those articles. Gluten is one of the worst things a dog can consume but thee are many articles that will tell you otherwise.

 Betsy, ohh my i screwed up again:(? , all the things I were told was good, i find out in here are not:(, I started  using it approx. 7-8 mo ago when I came back to mo and when her ears got really bad, the vet told me to get it and to add a tablespoon of it in her food daily, so I did… but the ears n skin kept getting worse, so I actually stopped it, I use it still, but not often…this one says its rich in essential omega 3 fatty acids..n vitamin b 6, it was not cheap.. ok, so then its not good to use it?

 thank you, and im glad you say what you did re the Zymox, as I was gonna get it in jan. so that is not needed?… so much going on with her.. ill tell you what she loved the eggs n sardines:)

 LOL, I have to say as depressed as I am you made me laugh..

debbie,
one more thing absolutely do not put any alcohol in audreys ears. That would be as bad as putting it in your own eyes at this point. If you have to make your own ear flush, use peppermint, menthol, and Salicylic acid (aspirin) in some distilled or at least boiled water.

debbie,
The flaxseed oil…….audrey doesn’t need it. sunflower oil, palm fruit oil, cocoanut oil, and olive oil are ok.  the flaxseed oil you may want to use on your hemmoriods. It won’t do anything for them other than keeping someones foot from getting stuckin your…..well never mind… just kidding.

She may actually be acting more hungry than usual because her body is in the process of fighting off an infection. The boric acid could be a good thing for infections too just make sure there are no open sores inside the ears before using it, other wise it could make things worse by causing more pain. When you do the flush the ear, fill the ear completely and gently massage it from the outside to losen up all the crap inside before you let her shake hr head. Yeah she is probably going to screem the first few times because of all the pressure but you have to do it. Just be very gentle….I’ve been through it with a German Shepherd dog that has a nasty attitude an doesn’t put up with any crap. He knew it was helping him so he reluctantly let me do it. 

Debbie, Why are you giving her the flaxseed oil? Have you been using it regularly? I had a conversation with my vet and again here with Shawna, both of whom told me that too much of an anti-inflammatory (I was using fish oil) can actually cause an inflammation response. Also, it’s my understanding that flax can interfere with endocrine functioning (like early neutering – which is why Sam isn’t neutered yet). And, I also thought (but could be mistaken) that dog’s don’t metabolize omega-3s from plant sources.

 food arrived in springfield at 3 am, i called wanted to go pick it up this am , they said no its on a container truck, will be delivered monday afternoon

 ok, yea it sounds kinda like the one called blue power… wonder if I should stop using the flush n med. drops im using? obviously they must not be helping if she has another ear infection:(
 to much of the same meds for her, she has become ammune to many of them by now im sure

The ear solution Mike suggested might be worth a try.  Keep in mind that it will stain things purple so try it outside and let her get any head shaking over with and blot up any excess before you take her in.

dave, what i have left for her ears is this:
 trizedta/batril in it, I use it in her ears to clean/flush, when they are dry I add 8 drops in right ear n 4 drops in left ear of:
 mometamax, it was what i have left from the vet, suppose to do the flush weekly, or as needed, and the drops, they are like a cream, daily…

 yes, I did, I actually got the sardines on sale for 1.00 a can the good ones I guess? were 2.99 a can, but had oil in them anyhow, there was a isle in the store dollar items, and so I got a bit of those, and eggs, and I have fresh fruit here, apples, and veggies, brocoli n green beans, and still a half bag left of nat organic coconut flakes.. food shows on tracking to arrive monday afternoon

 of course I am ! as I posted earlier, the 2 items from the vet, both prescriptions, a cleaner/flush, and a cream I put in afterwards.

 thank you mike, and I actually  at times will have those items, and I do give her yogurt, and I now make a homemade kefir:), she loves it….

 she gets her teeth brushed by me, about once a week, not daily as i should i know…  her teeth are actually pretty good… and she  does have that black tummy, and the elephant type skin, but if you seen my posts, just on this short time since brothers, i have seen a difference… as why im suprised her ears now have a bad odor.. I also have a nice flax I add to her food now n again… I am saving your post, as I am going to try these things on audrey, but what about all i hear about certain breeds needing certain foods? what do cockers need?

thank you so much.. i just got home i noticed i got by mistake the sardines in oil, the first one was in water, so i zoomed back to store to exchange them…. ty betsy for the link:)

 I add coconut oil to my dogs morning meal. There are numerous benefits

Are you not doing anything to treat the ears? You have been given a wealth of information here of the past several weeks. Food alone will not be enough to treat the ears. I am sorry to say it – that poor dog.

Natural Home Remedy
Head to the local drug store to purchase a these inexpensive and
natural ingredients so you can mix up a natural home remedy to cure your
dog’s ear infection. Rubbing alcohol , boric acid powder and Gentian Violet
liquid solution. Rubbing alcohol cleans and disinfects, boric acid is
an antiseptic and antibacterial and Gentian Violet is a natural
antifungal and an old-timey home remedy used for various fungal infections including mouth thrush and ear infection.

Mix 4 ounces of rubbing alcohol, 1 tablespoon of boric acid powder and
4 drops of Gentian Violet liquid and pour in a dropper bottle. Place a
few drops of the ear solution in your dog’s ear twice a day for the
first week. For the following two weeks use the ear solution once a day,
then for the next two months use the ear drops twice a week.

Sometimes a bacterial infection will follow a yeast infection in the
ears and this home remedy will not combat the bacteria, so if symptoms
continue after two months of treatment, a visit to the vet for
prescription antibiotics will be needed.

NOTE you can give your dog enteric coated baby aspirin if she is in pain 2 80 mg for a 40 lb dog at bed time so she can sleep.

Huh, mine have never gotten gas from it. But hey…I’m sure the butter tastes better, I know I’d rather have butter!

Debbie, I’m not going to address anything else about your post except you running out of food. You have a living breathing being, you can’t run out of food. That is not fair to her. You knew you were getting low and that Brothers is not a food that you can’t go to the store and buy. I’m afraid my patience is wearing thin and it’s time for me to stop reading this thread. I’m sorry but I’ve had it.

 When we rescued our dog 2 years ago she had a black patch on her side.She had yellow teeth and she was only 2 years old.She had missing fur on her elbows.Her tummy was dark and not white.She smelled and had awful breath.They said she had a thyroid problem.I found this site and started adding fresh meat to high quality kibble.Topped with sardines,eggs,meats,full fat greek yogurt,turmeric,fish oil,ground eggshell,digestive enzymes,fresh garlic,sometimes veggies and fruit.Guess what??All her probs went away.Got her teeth cleaned and give her a raw marrow bone a week and her teeth are white and her breath is great.Most of these things are a couple of bucks added to our grocery bill.I don’t get myself the snacks I used to buy so it’s a win win situation for me and the dog.

 thank you mike, wow wish you lived a tad closer… ok so the fresh meat will help re her ears??
 I need to find her post.. thanks again

 Debbie read Sandy’s post. I agree so much with what she said.Try any fresh meat you can get from the grocery store and add it to her food.Stores always have marked down meat.That’s when I buy it and freeze it until I want to use.I live in Illinois…

 felt again, and very very hot.. and she cryed when I was trying to check, not what I wanted to hear:(
 I wish there was a  place here, like I hear people here talk about that would help out re a dog going to vet, getting meds etc… but, even if I got help to get her to a vet n meds, then back on meds, more toxins in the body, right? I swear I think im doomed if I do, and if I dont:(

    me and audrey fell asleep on couch yesterday together, and when i woke up she was on other end and the odor was so bad from her ears it made me sick:( it has never been like this… anything natural you know of to give her?

 I do have unrefined organic coconut oil and have used it several times.Everytime we used it Jubilee got the toot’s.Now when I cook her food I use just water or organic butter.No gas with the butter…

I think it’s bad.  It sounds like infection:-(

No, I mean where the ear canal runs down the sides of the face.  And I’m all the way down in FL.

I’ve never used coconut oil topically but I do add it to my dogs’ homemade raw food on a regular basis. It’s a great source of medium chain triglycerides. Most coconut oil is solid and I find that a pain to add to the recipe (doesn’t distribute very evenly), so I usually buy the liquid. I have large dogs (bloodhounds) and I generally give them each 1 tsp. a few times a week. Here’s a good article about the health benefits of coconut oil: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

Also if you’re interested in starting raw, I’d highly suggest Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” It has some very simple and easy to understand recipes. It was the first book I bought when I began researching raw. It’s a quick read too, really short.

Since you have a bag of food and you have plans for a next, now is the perfect time to start doing research on feeding raw.  I started out with a simple recipe and the supplements they suggested and continued researching.  I still am learning and find more questions I need to ask on a regular basis.

Thanks everyone for the comments. I went to a local dog store and bought a bag of nature’s valley instinct limited ingredient with some merrick cans to feed with the dry food. I plan on switching the flavor of canned food every can and when the instinct is done try the brothers complete fish. I hope that this is a good strategy. I think eventually we could move into a raw diet but for now it is somewhat intimidating.

ok, im off to store.. i will do sardines n the eggs;)
 wish i could have drove to get the brothers at ups in springfield:( so do u think the ears are detoxing?

   ok, well i have a few stores here, for a small town quite a few and one very close…. glad you guys have helped me i was not knowing what to feed her..

Hey debbie, yes, 4 cans of sardines. 1 for each feeding. Yes, scramble a couple of eggs, let them cool, add a can sardines to her bowl with the eggs. Sardines are already cooked, so no need to heat them.

 ok, ill do the sardines… and no eggs correct? not much gas in car, lol so i only want to make 1 trip to the store..

 Hey debbie, you’ve got to feed her tonight, 2 x tomorrow, and probably Monday morning. I would get 1 can of sardines for each feeding. So 4 cans. You do not even need to add the eggshell, because the Sardines have bones, which will give her the calcium. 

 np, ok im off to the store, hope I can get all this cheap… maybe just a half dozen of eggs and a can or 2 of sardines, but in water, not oil right? and I just ground up the egg shells?? odd, lol  but hey if its good for her, im all for it:) the ears are  really scaring me now:( been through this vet/med crap for to long:(

 ty patty… you see her ears are odd, she really never had the head tilt, well she did, but as odd as it may sound to you, she has the head tilt all the time, even when her ears are fine.. what she gets to let me know her ears are bad is she cant stand up, or walk or move:( inner ear infections:(, makes her dizzy etc..

   but never had a odor… now the odor will knock you out:(

    smells like puss like yes, I guess, she never had the odor before, guess cause it was the inner ear?

It wasn’t up yet.  I’m trying to do 6 things at once so it’s taking me 15 minutes to compose even the shortest reply.

I hope the thing with her ears is just detoxing.  Pus smells really bad, but you should be able to tell if that’s going on in her good ear and usually if an ear is that bad the dog will have a head tilt and be whining etc.

If you usually feed her 1/2 cup of Brothers then she gets 1/2 cup of which ever meat.  I would go ahead and figure out how much she will need to get through the weekend and Monday morning and cook it all at once, then put it in a container in the fridge.  At least that way you don’t have to keep cooking more and more of it.  I wouldn’t give more than 1 teaspoon of the pumpkin and about that much of the green beans cooked and mashed too.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s turkey or beef, but turkey might be easier for her.

 Hound dog mom, no im vegan and never keep meat or eggs in the house, I live alone, just me and audrey… I cant think of when I last bought meat, lol many many yrs ago.. like many, ha ha… guess I will need to make a trip to the store and see what is the cheapest, and now im worried re the odor coming from her ears:( I tell you, it seems to never end:( what kind of veggies? and eggshells? not the egg? sorry, confused.. so I get say a half dozen of eggs, and cook them, them add them to her food, shells and all? I thank you..

What HDM said!! Eggs are good too and maybe have less of a gross out factor for you.

And he likes Ohio Pet Foods

 yes, I can and will do that:), I will just use a pot or pan for her, and not use it again for me:), I know you may think its nuts, but I cant cook out of something that had meat cooked in it… would you say turkey or beef? and how much? plain? or mix it with pumpkin and  green means etc?
 ohh boy, ok, just smelled the ears and it is both:( unreal….

   I swear this is getting to be horrible.. but you think its just detoxing? so really good then, not bad right?:(

Debbie – Do you have any meat or eggs? If the Brother’s is going to arrive Monday and you’re out of food I’d suggest meat, cooked & mashed veggies and some ground eggshell. Definitely not nutritionally complete but it could hold her over until Monday and would be a lot more healthful than green beans and pumpkin.

 Patty.. ohh I did not know.. what dog food company  does he like? Lol..
 ok, off the topic of mr walterwoods.. I need to ask you something , I posted yesterday for people to please e mail me re audrey.. first off as of last night I was totally out of all brothers food, for breakfast I gave her green beans and pumpkin:(, yes I know that sounds nuts.. I have white organic rice here n brown rice, and fresh potatoes, but I really dont want to do that, need to ask you, until brothers arrives what do  you suggest I give her?I have been tracking the brothers on ups, and as of 3 am , it arrived in springfield mo. im only about 10-15 min from there, so i called ups to see if i could pick it up, they said no as its not in a ups office, its in a truck:(i can go get it monday after 9 am they said, but its due to come here monday..
 so what do you think i should give her till monday? ohh i also have oatmeal, but that to is not good for her, the other thing im worried about is this, I noticed night before last a horrible odor coming from her, and she was recently bathed, so I smelt her, and sure enough coming from her ears:(, and odd as it may sound she never ever had a bad odor in her ears, even though she has had a ton of ear infections, her ears never had a odor.. well now they do:( and I did not want to mention $$ on here, lol as why i asked if people could email me , but i dont have the funds to go back to the vet n get more meds:(, wondering what to do, wondering if the odor is coming from the brothers food? as in a good way.. maybe its letting out the bad? but this never happened before, very confused, and upset.. today I flushed the ears, dryed them and added her med.. but im worried, the odor is very bad:(
 ohh and i have fresh broccoli also.

He’s on another forum and known for always posting in favor of foods from a particular company so take away from that what you will…

Seriously?  I don’t know too many people who buy the small bag of anything unless they can’t afford the bigger one.  I certainly don’t buy the small bag.  And how is a company making more money if you buy their smallest bag and then move on to a different company?  They aren’t.  The gimmick is the companies that try to con you into believing that it’s best for your dog to eat only one thing its entire life, then they make money, whatever size bag you buy.  How ignorant.

Hi Walterwoods57 –

You’re obviously a very gullible person and you are the one that’s fallen for the marketing gimmick. You’ve fallen for the gimmick many companies use to create brand loyalty – the “this food is complete and balanced and has everything your dog will ever need all in one dried up shelf stable pellet” gimmick.

No food is complete and balanced. Would you eat the same meal every day for your whole life? Doubt it. Feeding the same food day in and day out weakens the digestive system. Take a dog that’s eaten one type of food for 5 years and try to switch its food – odds are there is going to be some serious digestive upset. This digestive upset is because the dog is not healthy, lack of variety creates a weak digestive system. Take a dog that’s used to variety, feed them something new and nothing is likely to happen.

 here walter:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/how-often-should-i-change-foods.html

Food rotation is a gimmick supported by some companies that worry more about their wallets than yours. It was found that when people rotate foods they buy food in smaller bag at a higher cost per pound. There is no support for this at all scientifically. Not one shred of evidence that it is beneficial. It makes owners happy thinking they are doing a great thing but it means nothing.

Some people change foods every meal, some after every bag, some a few times a year.

What does it mean to rotate foods? I was priviosly looking at nature’s valley before you mentioned brothers complete. The only factor for brothers is the price but if it can be alternated with nature’s valley that could work.

 Oh Gosh No Toxed2loss,

 I didn’t say I edited a book. English is not my forte. I said I was asked to review a book, which I did do : )

I’ve never seen “veterinary nutritionist” capitalized as in a title, only used as a descriptor to describe a veterinarian who was board certified in nutrition. 

http://www.ehow.com/how_5700441_become-canine-nutritionist.html

Anyone can hang out a shingle as a pet wellness coach…. no education required.

June!

Thank you for your input. It’s greatly appreciated!

Please, can someone e mail me prvt?? it is in re to my dog audrey…. having a problem with her, and NO this is not having anything to do with the brothers food, or anyone helping me anyway.. I just need some help, and  feel like if I start posting what is happening now to her it will not get read the right away..please reach me at:
 lookatallthebooks@ com  again, this is about audrey.. and I am worried about her.com

I do mix my kibble with water.  It slows down my dogs that eat too fast and I have one that won’t eat any food that sticks to the side of the bowl, so he gets soupy food.  Yes, until Audrey is much better you should stick with Allergy Formula, it is formulated specifically for problems like hers.  Fish Formula is a great food and it will help, but not as fast as the Allergy Formula will.  Leave it in it’s original bag, squeeze all the air out, and put it, bag and all, in your storage container if you like.  Room temp is OK, refridgerator is better, in a warm sunny location is BAD.

 Wow! Fantastic response shawana.
Its coming on 2am here and I’ve gotta get my bootie to bed.  But, first:

1.  I started Billy Junior just recently on k9 Raw, then after a week switched to Raw homemade with Beef cubes (I know should have started with chicken back) but, what’s the best resource to do it correct and hassle free…or at least efficiently without spening my entire life preparing?

2.  I know there is a transition period but his stools are minimal, to say the least, and like small bouts of pudding…not good. Is this still the transition period?  Oh and his energy has gone down a bit…he sleeps more. 

3.  Previously he was on Addiction (for 2-years) so he’s not been on kibbles since he came to me from the pet shop.

4.  Trying to get all the proper mix for homemade raw is a like creating a new species.  How can I get it right?

Here are links to my kidd:

Billy’s Treadmill Workout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYWSA56ZxNA

Billy at home with agility practice (distractions at trials are still preventing

us from winning…he’ll run off to judges table or go sniff the ground):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56IWh7MULcA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE9Od2IoV6I

he got a huge bag of dog-food

for beating the other dogs on AIBI treadmill dog-day contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50SNWd3rCW8

However I’ve decided to

put a hold on that after reading literature

on damage that has recently been found

in scientific findings on shoulder injury

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=768613&sk=&date=&pageID=2

And of course we do our usual, casual

2x per day walks around the neighborhood.

A next door neighbor has just finished building her

dog therapy and rehab pool and Billy J and I worked

out a deal to use it for exercise, 3-4 times per week.

Here’s my Billy Junior:

Billy’s Treadmill Workout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYWSA56ZxNA

Billy at home with agility practice (distractions at trials are still preventing

us from winning…he’ll run off to judges table or go sniff the ground):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56IWh7MULcA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE9Od2IoV6I

he got a huge bag of dog-food

for beating the other dogs on AIBI treadmill dog-day contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50SNWd3rCW8

However I’ve decided to

put a hold on that after reading literature

on damage that has recently been found

in scientific findings on shoulder injury

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=768613&sk=&date=&pageID=2

And of course we do our usual, casual

2x per day walks around the neighborhood.

A next door neighbor has just finished building her

dog therapy and rehab pool and Billy J and I worked

out a deal to use it for exercise, 3-4 times per week.

Bill

http://www.billcalhoun.com

http://www.bill-calhoun.com/site/

Aimee,

I’m not responsible for your assumptions.

An animal “Wellness Coach” does not exclude her having expert knowledge of animal, or veterinary, nutrition. To be a “Wellness Coach” requires her to have extensive knowledge on all aspects of animal wellness, including nutrition.

I used the term as a descriptor, not as a title, which would signify degrees, etc. Which is identified by the fact I did not capitalize it… Something you should know to be qualified to edit books as you claimed you were doing.

I have read information describing her as a veterinary nutritionist. My bad… I didn’t run it down and verify the source! No, I did not email her and ask for her CV. But then neither did you.

thank you patty…. ok will do:), you know it just became habbit, after each am walk she knew she got a treat.. for yrs, and now nothing:(, but  this is how it is, i think she will be happy getting a little raw green beans now n then:)

For her issues you need to go as close to zero carbs as you can.  That means any treats that aren’t more of her kibble need to be meat, so like Marie said, stick to the Brothers even for treats, but adjust how much you give her at meal time.

I can’t even feed mine the Brothers dog biscuits and they have less carbs than anyones.

This is jmo, I don’t know if anyone else agrees but you have a dog with issues. Feed the Brothers and nothing else. If you have to have a treat, use some of the kibble (remember to adjust from her food ration). Dogs don’t need treats. I don’t think a few raw green beans or salt free frozen green beans will hurt but she doesnt need anything else. 
IMO again, get her healthy, then worry about the extras.

Oops, forgot to mention something in previous post.

Dr. Demian Dressler DVM of the dog cancer blog describes how kibble can be a carcinogen in his article titled “Dog Food: Is There A Cancer Risk?”

Not all kibbles are processed in a way to create the carcinogens discussed but many are.

Here’s the link if interested  http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-food-is-there-a-cancer-risk/

Hi bill,

Great questions!!!

1.  When a raw feeder talks about kibble they are referring to ALL kibble.  All kibble is processed and all kibble will have some nutrient loss due to that processing.  Because of that nutrient loss the manufacturers have to add synthetic nutrients back in and many believe that synthetic nutrients are not utilized as efficiently by the body.  A quick example — in nature there are 8 forms of vitmain E (not all foods have all 8 though).  In processed foods only “alpha tochopherol” or “mixed tocopherols” are added.  None of the 4 tocotrienols are added and science has discovered that it is one of the tocotrienols that is the cancer fighter of the 8 E’s.

2.  Yes, a well designed and balanced kibble can be just as, or even more, nutritious then a poorly balanced freeze dried, dehydrated or even raw diet.  However a balanced raw diet is, in my opinion as a raw feeder, the most nutritious way to feed our pets.  A quality raw food will have all the nutrition that mother nature put in the food.  Two examples — the amino acid lysine is damaged by temps as low as 110 degrees (kibbles are cooked above that temp).  The amino acid taurine is damaged during processing (the amino acid that prevents heart disease)..  ALL balanced cat kibbles (and canned too I think) have to have added taurine.  They are now discovering that some breeds of dogs require taurine too.

3.  Both — the extrusion process, the baking etc all damage certain nutrients.  Example — meals are heated twice so there, in my opinion, is a greater risk of amino acid loss in meals then in say “chicken or beef” which are only processed (heated) once.  However it is impossible, I am told, to make a higher protein food without the inclusion of meals.

Ingredients — It is also impossible to make a kibble without adequate (but unnecessary to the pet) starch to bind the kibble together.  Because a dog, and especially a cat, has no nutritional need for carbs (per Waltham etc) kibbles are not “species appropriate” as they are all too high in carbohydrates.  The type of carbohydrate used is also a consideration — potatoes can aggravate arthritic issues and can cause blood sugar issues to name just a few issues.  Grains have anti-nutrients (phytates) among other issues.  Most of us raw feeders add fruits and veggies but in SMALL amounts.  Nowhere near the 40+ percent carbs found in kibbles.

4.  Many of the freeze dried and dehydrated foods don’t NEED the added chelated minerals and vitamins because the ones originally in the foods ingredients have not been damaged by processing.  You also have to look at the individual food.  Example — The Honest Kitchen food is “guaranteed” to be human quality.  EVERY ingredient in the food can be consumed by humans.  Nothing in the food is “waste or by-product” from slaughter houses, no potato peels etc.

My problem with most dehydrated foods is that they are still too high in carbohydrates and too low in protein.

My problem with freeze dried is that most are too high in fat which displaces the protein in the diet.  The high fat content of these foods can often be from feeding poorer quality “fatty” cuts or parts of meat rejected for human use.

 Hi folks,

May I tweak yall’s brains?

Can you help me…to the best of your knowledge?

I’m so confused about all the nay-Sayers with regard
to ‘kibbles’

The very mention of the word seems to conjure up visions of
exorcism, mutiny, death penalty and atheism…what’s a poor dog–and handler–to do?

I see some ‘kibble’ foods–especially raw/real meat-types–are ranked 5-star on this site.

My questions:

1.  When they say kibbles are the cause of all the fuss are they referring to the grain ones or all kibbles?

2.  Can premium kibbles–like Orijen/Acana, etc–be just as nutritious and safe as freeze dried/dehydrated raw?

3.  Is they way they make/heat kibbles really the culprit or is it the ingredients?

4.  After reading all your FANTASTIC reports i see that with the chelated minerals and vitamins the kibbles of premium brands are similar if not better concocted than some of the freeze dried and dehydrated raw…plus, a lot less expensive.

Hi Walterwoods57,
Do you realize that Dr. Becker wrote her raw pet food book with veterinary nutritionist Beth Taylor?

Walterwoods57
Correct, she is a Veterinarian. Thing is with Nutrition we have no definite individual answers. All we can do is generalize. Per peer reviewed journals, Nutrition is highly individual. For example beagles metabolize calcium differently than Great Danes; Boxers and Dobermans metabolize Fish Oils differently. And that is only breed specific, not even an individual issue. We have to start with the general guidelines, and work with observation for an individual. This observation may be general appearances, blood work, urinalysis etc. but until Nutrigenomics becomes common place, we won’t have definitive answers for an individual.
Sadly, lots of scientific papers and studies are funded by drug companies or in the case of dog food, dog food manufacturers. This no doubt skews our information, not necessarily the results of the study, just which studies are done or not done- funded or not funded.

 wow, that seems like so little, no? I guess cause its so high in protien?? when she was eating the nat bal i think she had 2 cups a day, lol n when i was making her the homemade about 2 cups, wow i really screwed up:(

probiotics are a good thing and I doubt they will add weight to her. If you want to add canned, that may be fine (as long as they don’t have ingredients that you are keeping away from) but you will need to reduce the amount of dry if you give canned.

 ps so you dont think she needs the canned or probiotics?? will be better for my $$ if not, lol, but if she needs it i want to try to get it all you know?

 yes, again your right:), not sure what the bag says for what she should weigh, but i think it says 40 pounds up 1-2 cups, so im over feeding:(

Late reading this and haven’t read what anyone else has said but if she *should* weigh 27lbs,  I would feed her about 1 cup per DAY.  That is half a cup per meal. 
   I have a dog who is about 30lbs and not as active as he used to be, he only gets slightly more than 1/2 cup per meal. (he only has Brothers for one meal, raw for the other)

It is a lot to take in all at once.  Fortunately, it’s OK for Audrey if you don’t do everything at once.  That shampoo sounds like a good one.  Peppermint is cooling for the skin and eucalyptus is good too.  I don’t buy canned by the case because I mix up brands and flavors.  I don’t know how much my probiotics were, I got several things at the same time.  Just google Mercola, click on pets, then click on products, and look for probiotics.  I don’t know if it’s still on but they had a sale on them if you got 3 bottles, so I got 3 of several things I wanted.

Patty, yes I actually try to give her a bath 3 times or more per week, it does not dry  her out, actually been helping.. have a great shampoo that i was able to buy from a vegan/organic store in pa before i moved here to mo( but they also sell it online) their ingredients are:
   saponified (fair trade n organic)cocos nucifera(coconut)oil, triticum vulgare(wheat)germ oil, and ricinus communis(castor) seed oil, essential oils, and love:), that is exactly what it is:), and it is totally vegan and cruelty free… and a mom and daughter own the shop and they make everything right there!!the shampoo is called “augie”, peppermint,  clary sage, & eucalyptus), the shop is called the fanciful fox.
   been using it off and on for 2 yrs maybe and it works great.. sometimes in between I will bathe her in a little of the keratolux, that i got from a vet in pa also..its tar free and i like it to…I left the shampoo soak on her 20 min while i rub n massage it in n rinse good.. the vet here said to use a cheap dog conditioner, got one from petco a while back and all it did was irritate her.. the vegan shampoo is nice n really does not need a conditioner after it..
how much is the probiotics you now use? and  the canned do you get it cheaper if you get a case or what? ty patty:)
     

 wow, so u just started on the brothers to? which one? but I wonder why if he never had ear issues before he did then, that one time? its odd patty, audrey is getting more of those bumps, but they dont smell and no more puss:), the chewing has almost stopped alltogether, and the licking has cut down a ton, but this am she went through a long time of licking again… she has been scratching, im hoping no fleas, i dont see them, but its hard to see them on her… im so stressed re her n everything else..
 well im glad im not alone here thinking the brothers is working fast:), and you also give canned plus pro biotics also? daily?

 thank you patty sooo much:), ok, well i have 1 opened can of pumpkin in fridge that i have been keeping in a container with a lid, maybe half is left, and 1 more can in cabinet…ok so after this one in fridge im gonna stop giving it unless her bowel movements get  runny again:(… ok, now i get it re the canned food thank you, just so much info to take in here, all good of course… and i thank you all, and of course thank betsy n dave for all their food help, im just having alot of bad family issues going on now:(, and  went through so much with audrey being sick etc, and now well to find out i have major thyroid problems, and more going on re my health… just alot of bad that i dont need to tell the world about on here, lol
 but my health really has me upset right now.

  but please dont ever think that i dont appreciate all you all have done, as I do, and all my talking to shawna, you, betsy, tox just everyone.
 on top of that  i guess being x mas soon has me depressed, and my work for kids, finding out alot of bad:( very sad how kids are abused:(

  I wish I had a ton of $$$ to help all the children and animals, seems like there is always something bad going on:(
 I just need to keep my fingers crossed that she wont need to go to vet anytime soon, so far so good there, and I really feel its from the brothers food, what do you think? or is it to soon to tell?